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Old 04-06-2009, 12:50 PM   #11
Dave Van Skike
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I think it's yours for the taking Dave
Excellent...

I'm drawing up papers now...franchises available, comes with free copy of the Keys to Progress (used) and a Cro Mags t shirt (lightly soiled)
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Old 04-06-2009, 01:08 PM   #12
Gant Grimes
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Originally Posted by Dave Van Skike View Post
That's a compelling analysis. I'm just confused as to why it's called crossfit football when what you just described is really just non retarded GPP.....

that has a ring to it...is Non-retarded GPP taken or can I use that?
You better pounce on it fast. Otherwise CF will copyright it, create a cert for it, and you'll lose it forever. Trust me.

NRGPP is right up there with gymnastic jackassery. I just realized that every sport I like is basically NRGPP + specific practice.

Hopefully the heavy metcons will catch on (now that they have the CF blessing). They're effective, they don't kill you, and you can do them frequently. Who needs all that vomiting?
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Old 04-06-2009, 01:23 PM   #13
Peter Dell'Orto
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Originally Posted by Dave Van Skike View Post
I'm drawing up papers now...franchises available, comes with free copy of the Keys to Progress (used) and a Cro Mags t shirt (lightly soiled)
I could use a copy of Keys to Progress, and who can't use another t-shirt?

***

On the original topic, I do think it's interesting. I'd like to see them combine the front page workouts ala Coach Rut's site. Instead of separating the strength and metcon workout, just put them together. To use today as an example:

"Strength Work - pick the appropriate level and do the following:

Amateur
Squat 3x5 (go up 5lbs from last workout)
Shoulder Press 3x5 (go up 5lbs from last workout)
***If you fail on the 1st set drop the weight 5 lbs and continue***

Collegiate
Squat 5,3,2,2,2,2,2
Shoulder Press 5x5 (Try for a new 5RM PR on last set)

Professional
Squat 10x2 on the minute @ 65% of 5RM
Shoulder Press 5x5

Rest (X) minutes and do:

CF Football Grace

For time:

15 Clean & Jerks 155 lbs
Sprint 1 Full Gasser
10 Clean & Jerks 155 lbs
Sprint 1/2 Gasser
5 Clean & Jerks 155 lbs
Sprint 1/4 Gasser

Post loads and times to comments."


It's much easier layout wise, and you only need to maintain (and look at) one archive. Trying to piece together what strength work goes with what metcon is pretty hard.

It does seem like an interesting approach. But really...I don't really know football, so I can't eyeball and say "Yeah, that's football strength training." I don't play the game and I don't watch it. I train at a gym with lots of football players, but that doesn't do much beyond give me a snapshot of the kinds of workouts they do there.

The real test for this will be long-term. Will talented players use this method and make it into the college ranks and then into the pros? Until that happens it's going to be unproven in the way that really matters. It's got to be a better system than lots of schools use (and lots of high school kids training on their own). But I think like any other sport-specific system it's got to prove itself with trainees who become pros. Or pros who become better pros when they switch.
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Old 04-07-2009, 02:05 AM   #14
Blair Lowe
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I like CFFB but I'm a nobody.

Look at who will be using CFFB. Affiliates with football players or rugby players, etc ( HS/College ) or kids who want to try out for the football team that aren't strong enough or conditioned enough but need to have a focus for a strength/power sport instead of something with assloads of activity. Have you seen what is out there for kids who want to get on the football team in HS. It ain't pretty and it's probably shitty. There are quite a few threads on CF about this and even one program I saw online that basically a lot of strength and sprint training. Hell, this is strength/power, beastly metcon and the basic nutrition guideline thrown in as well in one neat package. Not every kid needs to mass gain but it gives them something. I can tell you I didn't really no where to start in HS or college when it came to strength/power training.

It's a bit like CFSB but tuned for the power/strength sports. Good for wrestling, football, basically the big painful contact sports and probably a bunch of others. It would probably be good for a baseball player who wants to start hitting lots of doubles and triples and maybe putting some of them over the fence. It would be good sprint wise for any infielder and outfielder and probably make your first basemen and catchers be a bit thinner.
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Old 04-07-2009, 06:00 AM   #15
Garrett Smith
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With most high school kids, simply making them stronger is the only Rx they need.
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Old 04-07-2009, 07:38 AM   #16
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With most high school kids, simply making them stronger is the only Rx they need.
With most anyone really heh.
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Old 04-07-2009, 10:51 AM   #17
Justin Algera
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The thing is, its off season conditioning time now so this is the type of stuff football players should be doing right now or rehabing from the season that ended. Spring drills will be starting in a month or so, and that will probably see a change in programming as well.

Im going to the cert in a few weeks so it will be interesting to see exactly how they are going to mix the SPP and the GPP in with the lifting.
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Old 04-10-2009, 04:45 PM   #18
David Boyle
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I'll play devil's advocate.

Let me start out by saying I think the programming is sound as far as GPP goes with a strength focus, I have no argument about that. And yes, it looks very familiar to what Gant came up with almost a year ago now.

Where is the part that makes you better at football though, because I'm not seeing it (or is the argument via the site once again that CF is the only way to get into shape for sports - an overused and incorrect assessment to say the least).

You'd burn a kid out doing this along with practice. National champions have been made without this, so I'm not buying it as the best way for football. The more specialized the position, the more this would actually hurt many of the positions.

Great for off season maybe, but horrid for during the season. One injury and you ruin the team if its a star player.

So my take? Great for the rest of the year...not so great during football, and sorry, you can power clean all you want, but accuracy is improved by throwing, catching...etc..football stuff.
That is spot on.

I agree w/ the off season use of crossfit to work on overall conditioning. Once the team starts working on positions and the such it's time to start seperating. Josh Everett dose it at UCR and I know he mixes it up quite a bit.
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Old 04-10-2009, 10:43 PM   #19
Gavin Harrison
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What's weird is I've notices the "strength" section sometimes looks like conditioning to me and then there's a WOD too.. like 100 push ups in the strength then a WOD.
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Old 04-12-2009, 03:39 PM   #20
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I like what CF is doing with the CFFB product line. It's a big step for the organization to cater to conventional athletics and not just to combat sports/ tactical/ public service types. It's a HUGE conceptual shift to go from training to face random challenges to complementing structured game situations and one that I never expected Coach Glassman to countenance.

Still, I suspect that this could be the killer CF ap. If CF manages to get a following in American football, that's a vehicle for huge expansion in public awareness, the cert business, and affiliate trainers in general. I mean, how many sports parents do you know who would drop trainers fees for their kids when they never would do the same for themselves? The esprit de corps of training the way that Marines train grabs a certain segment of the population, but nowhere near the population that will want to train the way their favorite ballplayer trains. And those same customers love to buy a brand. Plus, guys exposed to this training in highschool might even try to extend their "glory days" past their competitive careers by continuing with Crossfit... a broadly open gateway to affiliate participation. Exciting times for those in the business.

As far as the conceptualization of the WODs to date: I don't know that there is much new here from the perspective of people who frequent this board. There is a lot of Coach Rut and Gant Grimes and a fair bit of PMenu conditioning influence here. There's even a little, but not nearly enough IMO, Dan John. But I understand the hesitancy of other posters. Skills work is still mandatory and central. Strength and conditioning has to complement the development of precise, effective technique and judgment on the field and not vice versa. I don't think that's controversial. But I hope that CFFB doesn't mean to teach Xs and Os... this hybrid training stuff is just a concurrent method for getting bigger, faster, and stronger without completely disregarding general conditioning/ body composition in a time-effective fashion with just enough randomness tossed in to avoid glaring weak spots in programming. In sum, get more consistent product out of the gym in less time and get more time to work with your players... maybe more out of your players, too, back out on the field.

For those who argue that big and strong is all you need to be successful, I think that it's important to remember that the target population here is in adolescence. Who responds better to volume than teenagers and what are met cons except volume training dialled up to the point of cardiovascular discomfort? Make the met cons complementary to the core training movements... box jumps/ sprints/ sled dragging/ burpees/ lunge walks/ core work after squatting/ deadlifting and sledgehammer/ ball slam/ pullups/ dips/ clap pushups/ handstand pushups/ wall ball/ thrusters/ etc. after benching/ rowing. No marathons, here, but keep the loading relatively high and the time under load relatively load compared to mainsite workouts. Then call it "assistance work" and I'd wager that no one will complain.

Rambling now. Must stop. Happy Easter to all.
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