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Old 04-10-2009, 01:08 PM   #21
Donald Lee
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I think some of you are slightly misunderstanding the difference between a training maximum and a competition maximum. I will repost what I posted here from Supertraining:

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It is vital to recognise a training maximum TF max or training 1RM (single repetition maximum), which is always less than the competition maximum CFmax in experienced athletes, because optimal motivation invariably occurs under competitive conditions (Fig 1.1). Zatsiorsky states that the training maximum is the heaviest load which one can lift without substantial emotional excitement, as indicated by a very significant rise in heart rate before the lift (Medvedev, 1986). It is noteworthy that, in the untrained person, involuntary or hypnotic conditions can increase strength output by up to 35%, but by less than 10% in the trained athlete. The mean difference between TFmax and CFmax is approximately 12.5 +/-2.5% in experienced weightlifters, with a large difference being exihbited by lifters in heavier weight classes (Zatsiorsky, 1995).

....Intensity is usually defined as a certain percentage of one's maximum and it is most practical to choose this on the basis of the competitive maximum, which remains approximately constant for a fairly prolonged period. The training maximum can vary daily, so, while it may be of value in prescribing training for less qualified athletes, it is of limited value for the elite competitor.

It is relevant to note that competitions involve very few attempts to reach a maximum, yet they are far more exhausting than strenuous workouts with many repetitions, since they involve extremely high levels of psychological and nervous stress. The high levels of nervous and emotional stress incurred by attempting a competitive maximum require many days or even weeks to reach full recovery, even though physical recuperation would appear to be complete, so that this type of loading is not recommended as a regular form of training.

In other words, any attempt to exceed limit weights requires an increase in nervous excitation and interference with the athlete's ability to adapt, if this type of training is used frequently. In attempting to understand the intensity of loading prescribed by the apparently extreme Bulgarian coaches who are reputed to stipulate frequent or daily use of maximum loads in training, one has to appreciate that training with training maxima (which do not maximally stress the nervous system) is very different from training with competitive maxima (which place great stress on nervous processes).
If Andy Bolton pulls about 800 lbs from the floor in training, that's about 80% of his competitive maximum.

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The mean difference between TFmax and CFmax is approximately 12.5 +/-2.5% in experienced weightlifters, with a large difference being exhibited by lifters in heavier weight classes
For sure, 800 lbs is greater than 90% of his training maximum.
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Old 04-11-2009, 01:00 AM   #22
Enrique Billington
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Anyway I see you guys are talking about powerlifters, do you guys know that Shane Hamman could back squat what Andy deadlifted? His best clean was 232kg.. Something a 94kg lifter could put up. And Shane was a professional Olympic lifter. The shame thing goes for Mark Henry, +950ibs deadlift, 717ibs front squat and a best clean of 220kg. Once again, professional weight lifter.
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Old 04-14-2009, 07:31 AM   #23
Stuart Buck
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Did anyone see the first video of Andy Bolton here: http://beyondstrong.typepad.com/my_w...on-4575kg.html

It shows his warmups. Obviously, to a guy who can pull 1000+ pounds, 500-something pounds is nothing. Still, it's cool to see how the weight just flies up like it's an empty bar.
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Old 04-14-2009, 07:36 AM   #24
Dave Van Skike
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Originally Posted by Enrique Billington View Post
Anyway I see you guys are talking about powerlifters, do you guys know that Shane Hamman could back squat what Andy deadlifted? His best clean was 232kg.. Something a 94kg lifter could put up. And Shane was a professional Olympic lifter. The shame thing goes for Mark Henry, +950ibs deadlift, 717ibs front squat and a best clean of 220kg. Once again, professional weight lifter.
many people have squatted over 1000 in gear. there are indications of people full squatting over 1000 raw, none to PL legal depth and none in competition that i'm aware of. 1008 is the new world record for deadlift. i'm sure any lifters who are willing to pay the membership fee can show up and set records regardless of pedigree. mark henry was also a powerlifter and at one time professional wrestler..

running your jib over the merit of one sport and dismissing phenomenal accomplishments doesn't make anyone smarter....especially when it is a proven scientific fact that motocross is the best sport.
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Old 04-14-2009, 09:34 PM   #25
Gavin Harrison
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Originally Posted by Dave Van Skike View Post
many people have squatted over 1000 in gear. there are indications of people full squatting over 1000 raw, none to PL legal depth and none in competition that i'm aware of. 1008 is the new world record for deadlift. i'm sure any lifters who are willing to pay the membership fee can show up and set records regardless of pedigree. mark henry was also a powerlifter and at one time professional wrestler..

running your jib over the merit of one sport and dismissing phenomenal accomplishments doesn't make anyone smarter....especially when it is a proven scientific fact that motocross is the best sport.
I wanted to say something snarky, but decided against it. Yay.
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Old 04-16-2009, 01:56 PM   #26
John Seiler
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Originally Posted by Gavin Harrison View Post
all the gymnastics/skinny people/strength-to-weight ratio people are just going to say it's only a 2.72xBW lift, since he weighs about 370 lbs :P
Say..., I weigh half as much as him and my deadlift PR is half as much as his. That means that pound for pound I can hang with the best deadlifter in the world. YES!

Thanks Gavin!
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Old 04-16-2009, 02:35 PM   #27
Arden Cogar Jr.
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Originally Posted by John Seiler View Post
Say..., I weigh half as much as him and my deadlift PR is half as much as his. That means that pound for pound I can hang with the best deadlifter in the world. YES!

Thanks Gavin!
Unfortuantely, it just doesn't work that way.

On those figures, I'm at about 3.1xbw and I bow in admiration of Andy Bolton. That dude can pull stuff that no other human has ever been able to pull - no matter the size, etc.

However, like me, I doubt he can do a muscle up.

And John, the fact that you pull 504 at 185 is freakin worthy of some serious respect. Good damn work my friend.

All the best,
Arden
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Old 04-16-2009, 07:42 PM   #28
John Seiler
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Originally Posted by Arden Cogar Jr. View Post
Unfortuantely, it just doesn't work that way.

On those figures, I'm at about 3.1xbw and I bow in admiration of Andy Bolton. That dude can pull stuff that no other human has ever been able to pull - no matter the size, etc.

However, like me, I doubt he can do a muscle up.

And John, the fact that you pull 504 at 185 is freakin worthy of some serious respect. Good damn work my friend.

All the best,
Arden
Party Pooper! Just playing. Yeah, it's unfortunate that it doesn't work that way. But it sure sounds good.

Thanks for the props; very cool coming from a gent of your abilities.
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Old 04-16-2009, 09:37 PM   #29
Gavin Harrison
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Originally Posted by John Seiler View Post
Say..., I weigh half as much as him and my deadlift PR is half as much as his. That means that pound for pound I can hang with the best deadlifter in the world. YES!

Thanks Gavin!
Best pound for pound deadlift is somewhere around 5xBW, IIRC.

Either one is admirable, but half a ton is just my bending..
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Old 04-17-2009, 01:27 AM   #30
Enrique Billington
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Dave I know Mark Henry was a powerlifter (so was Shane Hamman), they were both powerlifters before they were Olympic weightlifters, that was my point, a big deadlift has no correlation to cleaning. Deadlifting does not train one for the most important part of the lifts, the squat under the bar, both of these two lifters were known for their inefficient squats under the bar, especially Mark Henry, due to their practice of overextension (triple extension), a habit they undoubtedly formed doing deadlifts, power cleans, and high pulls.
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