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Old 04-10-2009, 11:04 PM   #1
Jon Brody
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 73
Default A Quasi-Fighter's First Tango w/ Refined Training:'s First

***n.b. this might be long, and I feel a bit leachy saying so much with my first post to get advice, but I will say that I’d truly appreciate any words and I intend to “pay it forward” whenever/if ever I can!

First time, long time. Some background, some general stats, and personal desires:

I’ve competed in boxing and MT, and way before that tennis – I’ve always been really into athletics and I’ve trained like a beast when I’ve trained, but my non-skill training has never been consistent or terribly ballin’. So, I’m something of a newb to both basic strength and metcon work, but at the same time I’ve always adapted well to new physical challenges and stimulae whenever they've occurred. I’m also 23, fwiw.

Lame “cardio” and globo-gym BBing over the backdrop as a social enterprise has basically dominated my existence.

I recently started BJJ, fell in love, and I wanna dedicate myself to it for the foreseeable future. It’s like kinetic chess (I think Couture might have said that or something like that once before), and it’s such a life-long pursuit.

Tues/Thurs/Sat I’ll be doing jitz @ a school, and I have a chance to do non-rolling skill-work a couple other days at impromptu times.

I CF’ed for 2 weeks around when I picked up BJJ, stumbling upon an affiliate <5min from my new crib. It sparked something of a renaissance in me, and I've spent an embarrassing amount of time researching and thinking down the rabbit hole of performance since. I broke my ankle (non-training related) shortly after, rehabbed, and now feel pretty primed to start the first day of the rest of my training life now!!!!

Some stats:

6’0’’, ~205, kinda fat…I’d guess ~16% bf, but I could be wrong. If I had to take a stab….I “should” weigh ~190….maybe even 185.

DL: (my first time ever, which was my first trip to CF, 5x3 or 5x5 day (not 100%), finished with#385.

BP: #225x3 on a good day -- never been a fan of the bench, and I always feel like a bit of a clown when I do it w/ friends at globo... using dumbbells I can put up disproportionately stronger stats on pressing movements, fwiw, vs. barbell

BS: not totally sure…I’ve repped 300+ with ease @ globo but my depth was pathetic compared to the legit stuff I’ve seen you guys do….I do recall having a horrible time with “form” when tea-bagging the floor when I did a CFT @ the affiliate once….it was also after my first week and I kinda felt raped…I was rx’ing a lot of the WODs or coming close to, combined with just getting into BJJ, and I also toyed with zoning/low-cal.

So, part of me wants to dive into CF...but I think I should beef up my general strength prior, while also giving my body a chance to adapt to metcon work, while also leaning out and tinkering with nutrition…? I have little desire to pack on size right now.

Without further ado my current plan and outlook:

Day1 -- SS routine (3x5 BS, 3x5 BP, 1x5 DL)

Day2 – ~10min, bodyweight/low-weight metcon + core work

Day3 – Choose between heavy, short metcon; tabata work; explosive, timed metcons (20min max)

Day4 – REST

Day5 – SS routine (3x5 BS, 3x5 Press, 5x3 PowerClean)

Day6 – Sprinting Intervals (800max, decrease distance + increase intensity each week) + core work

Day7 – REST

For the metcon, sprinting and core work I’m thinking about drawing from goodies courtesy of a RossTraining book my dad bought me when I was rehabbing my injury. Also, every 4th I’m thinking of “de-loading” some and making it a back-off week, and every 3months a week off….not sure on that, though, and I guess I’ll see how my body handles everything.

So, any and all criqitue/comments welcome. I wonder if I’d be doing enough to solidify a bonefied “foundation of strength” that’l serve me well moving forward. I guess I could add the traditional 3rd SS day on Day3….might be pushing it, though, and the juice not worth the squeeze….?

I’d like to stick with something like this for ~50days, and then segue into a 3/1/2/1 CrossFit split utilizing the affiliate that’s <5min from me (CrossFitMilford).

When my body and mind can hack it, I’d love to integrate something Gant-esque….or like CFSB or CFFootball with some mods t'would would be super-sweet.

CrossFitMilford looks to have adopted a CFEndurance route, so CFFootball and hybridizing like that could be a fantasy for me unless I found a training m8, build my own rig of a gym, or miraculously they adopted something like that. ….guess I’ll cross that bridge if it comes.

Anyhew, amazing site, truly….I’ve dove into enough of them, and this place really seems toptop!

**the RossTraining book (InfiniteIntensity) gives a nod to one maximal and one explosive strength workout per week, as well as the same # of conditioning days….but the strength routines are radically different than the SS design….they look really interesting, just totally different.
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Old 04-10-2009, 11:28 PM   #2
sollo rick
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 23
Default that's 8 a week

SS 2day a week
2 days sprints or metcon
1 day 10 min metcon
3-day jujitsu
That’s 8 workouts a week
10 a week is the practical limit
If you can do this with out burning out
Or getting injured
You should be good to go
You will have to live a very clean life to do this
Even at your age
I always ask what is the goal?
Are you a fitness person who does jujitsu?
Or a jujitsu person who does fitness
As they say more is not better more is more
And a lot of static strength and static endurance is used in groundwork
You might want to ad a little of that to the metcons
Gym Jones and others do some of that in there
People have won some serious stuff in jujitsu with out much lifting
And others are just monsters so again what is your goal?
Good Luck to you and this is just my opinion
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Old 04-10-2009, 11:58 PM   #3
Jon Brody
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 73

Hmm...thx for the words...re: bjj, I could modify my rolling by intensity and frequency if need be for a given time; I guess with that said, it answers your question of whether I'm a fitness person doing jiujitsu or the reverse. I suppose that's where I stand right now, but if I got more involved in the bjj I'd have to likely just bite the bullet and reprogram things to cater more to it.

You also might be more right than I could currently comprehend and admit to about having to lead a very clean life to do this. Sleep and nutrition is paramount, for sure; I think I've mapped out a plan for that, which I simply need to execute, which might not be all that simple to actually do. I'm sorta OCD with routines, which might help me -- once I put my mind to something and the wheels start turning I get really methodical (if not maniacal ).

I'll def look into static strength/endurance work and see about incorporating that! I'm crazy excited to begin the odyssey, either way -- it's harrowing to think of how inadequate my training has been hahah....but ultimately exciting to see how far I can take myself through hard-work applied to high-level concepts.
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Old 04-11-2009, 05:56 AM   #4
George Mounce
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 938

I don't think you need to beef up your general strength at all. SS isn't the answer to always starting out. You get strong by moving heavy things and it doesn't have to always be the big three. Gaining anything is more a matter of nutrition anyways.

With the weight schemes used in CF you'll gain strength.

So, part of me wants to dive into CF...but I think I should beef up my general strength prior, while also giving my body a chance to adapt to metcon work, while also leaning out and tinkering with nutrition…? I have little desire to pack on size right now.
This sums it up. You want too much. General strength will occur just doing CF, if you want to adapt to the metcon, go ahead and go with scaled workouts first and work your way up. A 225# deadlift in say Diane isn't something to scoff at as you are doing it 45 times over the course of the workout.

If you don't want to pack on size, I don't see why SS would be good, as that is what its meant for. Getting strong by packing on mass. You can get strong as hell using a gymnastics program.

This is a template that would be better for you as you need to be able to recover:

Mon - Gymnastic statics + CF

Tuesday - BJJ followed by 1 skill tabata work

Wed – REST

Thur – BJJ followed by 1 skill tabata work

Fri – Gymnastic statics + CF

Sat – BJJ followed by 1 skill tabata work

Sun – REST

As you progress, replace the tabata work with short (less than 10 minute) CF metcons. You can do this easily by making Cindy 10 minutes or doing Fran, etc. There is also a thread on the CF forums about Heavy metcons that are all under 10 minutes if you want to go heavier. In my opinion based on your sport this is going to help a whole lot more that going the SS route.

Once you feel in shape to go, head on over to Gant Grimes hybrid workout log and see what he has done. It has worked wonders for him and he is a Judo guy.

Oh and you said nothing about your nutrition, so can't help you on that one.
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Old 04-11-2009, 08:37 AM   #5
R. Alan Hester
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Posts: 285

I agree with George on this one. Your base strength is fine. Try not to get sucked into the "my Fran time is" with pure CrossFitters, but use CrossFit as an ADJUNCT to your BJJ. Use heavy Metcons, not the chippers, because you get plenty of long chipper-like stress rolling 40-60 minutes a night. I see guys at my gym stacking Michael on 60 minutes of intense rolling, then complaining about chronic fatigue and stagnation.

I roll BJJ 3-4 times a week and approach S&C as an adjunct, because I am a "recovery midget" in my 30's. At 23 you can get away with excess, but it will rear its ugly head at some point.
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Old 04-11-2009, 09:36 AM   #6
Steven Low
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What George said.
Posts NOT intended as professional medical, training or nutrition advice.
Site // Bodyweight Strength Training Article // Overcoming Gravity Bodyweight Book
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Old 04-11-2009, 12:50 PM   #7
Jon Brody
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 73

Awesome. Heavy metcons make a lot of sense. If I understand it right....it allows you to make (sport-specific, strength-biased) metcon gains while not ravaging your CNS to the point where you have to curtail your overall training or suffer the effects of chronic fatigue and the like....

Thx especially for the template, George! When you mention replacing the tabatas w/ heavy-metcons it's not imperative to get it done post-BJJ, right -- it'd be cool to do it prior, as well, especially if I were to separate the sessions by enough hours?

One potential problem I see is that if I were to do CF w/ an affiliate gym I wouldn't have control over whether I'm doing a a finely tuned heavy-metcon or something longer, let alone doing something like a full-blown chipper....? The flipside is that it's *amazing* to have that type of equipment at yer disposal, and not in some globo-gym atmosphere.

Do a lot of you guys build your own rigs to train out of? The $ to customize a training space seemed daunting, but I guess you recoup it over time (CF by me would be 100-150/month). I think I'm going to try to do a template per George's recco for a good 2-3months and if good to go look to devise something Gant-esque and hopefully have figured out an ideal place to train from.

Re: nutrition....I'm starting a ~17block zone w/ paleo + dairy parameters....going to apportion a bulk of carbs (and most dense carbs) into my PWO window(s), cut the overall carb blocks a bit and up the fat per R. Wolf's recco.....even though I want to shed weight, I think I'm going to also 2X the overall fatblocks given workload and genetics, and once I lean out go 3-5x as I increase workload and intensity further. If I'm not leaning out I'll try baseline zone fat levels and try sticking it out.

**I'm also going to supplement w/ fish oils, creatine, a greens powder and when I'm looking to drop pounds BCAAs....
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Old 04-11-2009, 10:27 PM   #8
sollo rick
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Nice to read what I was try to say said better and more clearly
It doesn’t matter what I think
It matters what you think you are and what you want to do
Plenty of bjj guys have lower lifts than you
And plenty are monsters look at the pictures
What do you want to be? That is how to decide
What do you enjoy? What is your style on the mat?
That how much ss you need. Training can be cycled
What you wrote is good for a fight, what George wrote is good anytime
Don’t get mad at me, anytime including fight prep
How do you want to make your way?
Training should be adjusted to what is needed
No one here is seeing you roll so this is all your decision
And no one knows how hard the bjj work is and how taxing it is
So adjust from that, as every group is different as is every person in the group
Of the 3 work outs-ss, met cons/sprints, bjj it is pretty hard to grow equally in all 3
This needs to be prioritized as you see fit
I have found for myself I need a hobby from my hobby
So I coast in one and blast in the other and switch over all the time
Many ways to be good there are
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