Home   |   Contact   |   Help

Get Our Newsletter
Sign up for our free newsletter to get training tips and stay up to date on Catalyst Athletics, and get a FREE issue of the Performance Menu journal.

Go Back   Catalyst Athletics Forums > Nutrition > General Nutrition

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-27-2007, 07:38 PM   #11
Elliot Royce
Senior Member
 
Elliot Royce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 317
Default

For me, diet works best as a trend, rather than as an absolute. I think of it like skiing -- almost no one skis straight downhill, you always need to make a few detours, but if you keep the skis pointed downhill, you will make it to the bottom. Otherwise you start to obsess and your mind and body turn against you.

"A cube of sugar will get the largest horse to change its direction."
Elliot Royce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2007, 08:30 PM   #12
Mike ODonnell
Senior Member
 
Mike ODonnell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,596
Default

When I ski....I tend to stop off at the lodge half way down for a shot.
Mike ODonnell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2007, 07:47 AM   #13
Elliot Royce
Senior Member
 
Elliot Royce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 317
Default

Hence the Guinness as the foundation of your diet!
Elliot Royce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2007, 07:50 AM   #14
Frank Needham
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 543
Default

Hide boda bags and flasks at strategic locations instead, its really enjoyable on a nice sunny day...
__________________
"Lack of sleep makes cowards of us all."
Frank Needham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2007, 11:33 AM   #15
Mike ODonnell
Senior Member
 
Mike ODonnell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,596
Default

Centuries of genetic makeup has made my Irish heritage DNA excel better with Guinness...no use fighting evolution.

I like Robb's No BS approach.....more trainers need that attitude. I see too many collecting a pay check to just count reps without doing anything worthwhile for a client. I look at my job as if my client isnt getting results....I should be fired. Which leaves me torn between the Zone and a more veg/meat attitude. Personally I like both....I can get weight loss with a Zone approach...and if that's the person's goals then I am helping them and making them healthier in the process. Now I also understand that I need to educate them on limiting dairy, grains, etc...and getting more carbs from the fruits and vegetables.

I guess we must analize who we are training and what works best. For example I was doing a 6 week nutrition only seminar for people with autoimmune conditions....of the group, 2 ladies only came to the first session and never came back. When I finally got in touch and asked why, their response was that I basically scared them off talking about not eating grains, dairy,etc....and they were not ready for that. Now you can take 2 approaches...as well they are not ready, but did I do a disservice in not helping them in some fashion....and also could I have had them on a zone approach without complete elimination and got good weight loss, a more focused approach on their health and create more awareness that maybe in 3-4 months I could get them to drop the grains and dairy? I guess it comes from my complex to try and save everyone....but like I said, I know if they do the zone they will get fat loss and that is step 1...step 2 is a doable lifestyle for health and wellness....I don't expect them to stay on the zone...just learn from it and then be able to make smart choices down the road.

So while I do agree with some people need the "do this or I will not train you" approach...others may not respond. In the long run could I get everyone where I need them to be? Maybe...some's journey may take longer than others...but life is about the journey...even if it takes me a year to get someone really where I want them, I believe I have done something better off for their life. So many approaches....so I guess I have to monitor and keep track of everyone to see what works and doesn't and modify my approach as needed to get them on the road to better health. Even with the compliance approach I still believe in education.

I give my clients a food journal...and tell them I will not even discuss their nutrition unless they fill it out and hand it to me....otherwise I get the "well I am eating right...you know...good stuff"....Ummmm, No I have no idea what you are eating...so write it down....just give me the book and in 2 minutes I know where the problem is. That I am strict on.

PS. Someone needs to send Oprah a copy of the Paleo diet
Mike ODonnell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2007, 01:21 PM   #16
Yael Grauer
Senior Member
 
Yael Grauer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 1,590
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robb Wolf View Post
We have wrangled with this a bunch. I think the meat and veggies thing is sooo damn easy and effective. It just turns things around immediately...no arguing over toast, juice, beans etc. Even an athlete who is cranking along with their training can benefit from depleting their liver and muscular glycogen for perhaps the first time in their lives. Make them more efficient at burning fat and then introduce carbs as necessary to support activity.

This was an ongoing source of frustration for me when I was part of crossfit as the party line was "All you need is Zone"...except for all the celiacs and the fact that refined carbs in ANY amount derails many, many people. An of course it would be IMPOSSIBLE to eat 40/30/30 with "meat and veggies, nuts and seeds, some fruit, little starch and not sugar..." bullocks.

Everyone from Sears to Poliquin comment that some folks are carb tolerant and some are not. I think the folks who do well on the Zone are relatively carb tolerant. I remember the first crossfit certification Nicole Carrol went to...she was still vegetarian and eating a relatively low protein diet but had capped delts and her abs were up. She is leaner and more muscular now with the Zone and seems to do great on the Zone but when I eat Zone parameter carbs I start getting carb related hunger pangs...unless everything is veggies but then I need 4hrs per day just to chew my food. I'm fairly disciplined but that is a deal breaker for me. As is the issue of how do I eat soups, stews and cook for 2, 3, or 5 people. I think the Zone is a nice tool in many ways and can be PERFECT for your OCD clients who thrive on knowing exactly what to eat. Other people if you can get them to buy some organic salad greens, steam some asparagus and buy a rotisserie chicken on the way home from work...getting ready to feed the kids and help with homework...that is all they can manage and likely all they NEED.

Steve-
You bring up some interesting points about the psychology, about how people need to frame things to keep priorities straight. I suspect there are 4-8 archetypes along the lines of the Meyers-Briggs personality type (http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/JTypes2.asp)

Just a guess, nothing solid. We are working on a screening method to determine if someone would do well with a stringent "eat this, weigh and measure everything" method versus a "meat, veggies, good fats" approach.

Over time I've realized that I need to be aggressive from day one about nutrition. Much like what Mike mentioned...folks need to earn cheat meals. From day one I need to tell them if they do not comply with the nutrition and lifestyle I wont work with them. Oddly enough it improves compliance AND retention. I think folks actually affect some real change as well. In the past I was very hands off...loads of educational material but I "let them find their own way". that is bullshit...and was a disservice. This may sound nuts but "we" are the only people who are going to give our clients the real deal. They will not get information that promotes health from their doctor, priest, dietitian, politician or TV news anchor-person. Oprah is trying to kill them, they just don't' know it, and neither does Oprah.

For a dedicated person, with a bit of time and a desire to bring their game up the weighing and measuring of the Zone is a nice place to get them going. For a stressed out, single mom who works 45-50 hrs per week, who is trying to get her kid to swimming and piano practice weighing and measuring ala the Zone is a phocking pharse. Getting the same individual to eat some scrambled eggs and a hand full of nuts for breakfast, a can of salmon over salad greens for lunch and a rotisserie chicken and steamed asparagus for dinner is doable.

Sorry if this was a little random...I can REALLY jabber on this topic.
Here, here!! Switching off of the zone and off of refined carbs has really helped me, and upping the fat (even though my BF isn't where I want it to be yet but I'm getting there!!) took care of my carb cravings.

I guess that's why I love the metabolic typing diet. Not that it's necessary but I think it's helpful for people who are really really out of touch with what it is that makes them feel healthy.
__________________
http://yaelwrites.com
Yael Grauer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2007, 02:38 PM   #17
Allison Barns
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Seattle
Posts: 135
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robb Wolf View Post
....when I eat Zone parameter carbs I start getting carb related hunger pangs...unless everything is veggies but then I need 4hrs per day just to chew my food. ....
Thanks for mentioning that Robb. I've found the same thing with me and have been wondering what my problem is.... nice to know it ain't just my problem!
Allison Barns is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2007, 09:45 AM   #18
Robb Wolf
Senior Member
 
Robb Wolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,444
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Allison Barns View Post
Thanks for mentioning that Robb. I've found the same thing with me and have been wondering what my problem is.... nice to know it ain't just my problem!
Yea...that was a tough thing for me standing in front of a room full of people at a CrossFit certification and needing to toe the party line. It was not kosher to say" The Zone will work like magic for some of you ...not so much for others. And some of you will want to kill ME trying to comply with this."

The Zone can be a good starting place. Weighing and measuring are crucial so you know how much is going down the hatch and how folks are responding to that...but if you are following this highly precise method of eating and you have LESS blood sugar control than a simple meat-n-veggies approach...something is wrong there.

Even all this Paleo stuff I just recommend that people try cutting grains, legumes and dairy out for a time. Reintroduce and see how you feel/perform. just about EVERYBODY feels better without wheat. Some notice no change with or without dairy...for others it's a big deal. Just try it and see.

I REALLY like using the base Zone blocks and swap out carb blocks for fat blocks (3 fat for 1 carb). This still offers accuracy/precision but I think better glycemic control.
__________________
"Survival will be neither to the strongest of the species, nor to the most intelligent, but to those most adaptable to change."
C. Darwin

Robb's Blog
Robb Wolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2007, 11:00 AM   #19
R. Alan Hester
Senior Member
 
R. Alan Hester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 290
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robb Wolf View Post
I REALLY like using the base Zone blocks and swap out carb blocks for fat blocks (3 fat for 1 carb). This still offers accuracy/precision but I think better glycemic control.
I am the same way. I use zone block requirements with Paleo foods and replace the carbs with fats (1x3). I eschew wheat products and the only dairy I consume is goat cheese, because I cannot break myself of pinenut salads with goat cheese and olive oil dressing. At first, I did not use the zone requirements as a parameter. That changed as I began to notice my happy-fun belt growing. After close inspection of my intake, I calculated my fat intake to be at about 180 blocks, not my target of 72—too much EVOO (intellectual property of Rachel Ray) on salads. In short, one must measure at first to allow one's eyes time to calibrate.
R. Alan Hester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2007, 04:41 PM   #20
Jeremy Jones
Senior Member
 
Jeremy Jones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 181
Default

Lots of good info here. I especially like the "Who you have to BE" stuff.

Maybe there should be different diet classifications all based upon the hormonal balance / paleo stuff that we all have learned to adopt in some shape or form. Nothing too rigid, but something that could be explained in a couple of pages for the un-initiated only looking for options and not the exact "why this works".
__________________
-Jeremy Jones
www.diablocrossfit.com
Jeremy Jones is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:11 PM.

Powered by vBulletin Version 3.6.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Subscribe to our Newsletter


Receive emails with training tips, news updates, events info, sale notifications and more.
ASK GREG

Submit your question to be answered by Greg Everett in the Performance Menu or on the website

Submit Your Question
WEIGHTLIFTING TEAM

Catalyst Athletics is a USA Weightlifting team of competitive Olympic-style weightlifters with multiple national team medals.

Read More
Olympic Weightlifting Book
Catalyst Athletics
Contact Us
About
Help
Newsletter
Products & Services
Gym
Store
Seminars
Weightlifting Team
Performance Menu
Magazine Home
Subscriber Login
Issues
Articles
Workouts
About the Program
Workout Archives
Exercise Demos
Text Only
Instructional Content
Exercise Demos
Video Gallery
Free Articles
Free Recipes
Resources
Recommended Books & DVDs
Olympic Weightlifting Guide
Discussion Forum
Weight Conversion Calculator