Home   |   Contact   |   Help

Get Our Newsletter
Sign up for our free newsletter to get training tips and stay up to date on Catalyst Athletics, and get a FREE issue of the Performance Menu journal.

Go Back   Catalyst Athletics Forums > Training > Olympic Weightlifting

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-02-2009, 02:23 PM   #11
Garrett Smith
Senior Member
 
Garrett Smith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 4,368
Default

Try sticking the chest out more when you are getting into, and while you are holding the position...by doing that, you will be asking your actual shoulder joints to do less movement (since the scapular shift will be doing more). Really pinch those shoulder blades back and together.
__________________
Garrett Smith NMD CSCS BS, aka "Dr. G"
RepairRecoverRestore.com - Blood, Saliva, and Stool Testing
My radio show - The Path to Strength and Health
Garrett Smith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2009, 02:51 PM   #12
Brian Stone
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Norwich, CT
Posts: 502
Default

Did a slightly wider grip tonight and that seemed to do the trick, at least in the short run. I'm with Derek in that my squats are always a work in progress; if it's not one thing it seems to be another. Unfortunately, I don't think I have any qualified squat coaches in my gym, but I'm going to see what I can find in the area. I think my best bet is to get some prof coaching on it altogether.
__________________
"Use what talents you possess: the woods would be very silent if no birds sang there except those that sang best." —Henry Van Dyke

log
Brian Stone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2009, 04:38 PM   #13
Garrett Smith
Senior Member
 
Garrett Smith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 4,368
Default

Working on anterior capsule stretches/mobilizations would likely help too. I have a major deficit on my right shoulder and that's the side that would tend to get irritated on LBBS.

I may give high bar another shot, now that I've finally developed some semblance of upper trap muscle...
__________________
Garrett Smith NMD CSCS BS, aka "Dr. G"
RepairRecoverRestore.com - Blood, Saliva, and Stool Testing
My radio show - The Path to Strength and Health
Garrett Smith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2009, 05:07 PM   #14
Patrick Donnelly
Senior Member
 
Patrick Donnelly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 720
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Smith View Post
Are you advocating a specific different position (HBBS?) or simply pointing out that ideal grip width and angle varies and can sometimes be "felt" better than learnt?
I'm talking about high-bar. It's naturally a much better position to put a bar.


One key theme I remember from Starting Strength is that lifting a higher poundage doesn't necessarily mean you're stronger. That's why you always lift with good technique, pull conventional, keep your ass on the bench, stay out of the triple-ply suits, etc. when you're a novice. However, with regards to the bar position in the squat, that doesn't seem to apply. Rippetoe's reasoning there is that reducing the lever arm of the back lets you use more weight, even though, as he's said elsewhere, more weight doesn't necessarily mean you're any stronger. I also remember a CFJ article where Rippetoe talked about the differences in high and low positions, and how the high was more natural, but the low was superior for one reason or another. In that article, he referenced a friend of his who learned to squat with him, and who lifted high while Rippetoe himself went low. He ended the article with something like "He still thinks high is better, but I always squatted more than he did." There's a total discontinuity there.

Bah, now I'm ranting.
__________________
And yes, I'm actually holding that handstand. Get on my level.
Patrick Donnelly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2009, 09:02 PM   #15
Gavin Harrison
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 263
Default

Eh, I squat high bar, but I have a short torso and long legs. Low bar bends me too far forward to be worthwhile.
Gavin Harrison is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2009, 10:03 AM   #16
Dave Van Skike
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: PNW
Posts: 1,738
Default

if the safety squat bar had been invented in a more timely manner, this whole discussion would be moot.
__________________
Practical Strength
Dave Van Skike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2009, 10:21 AM   #17
Brian Stone
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Norwich, CT
Posts: 502
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Van Skike View Post
if the safety squat bar had been invented in a more timely manner, this whole discussion would be moot.
Do you recommend using it? I don't think I've ever seen a squat done with one of them, which isn't to say that they shouldn't be used. They will change the mechanics of the exercise, though.
Brian Stone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2009, 11:30 AM   #18
Dave Van Skike
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: PNW
Posts: 1,738
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Stone View Post
Do you recommend using it? I don't think I've ever seen a squat done with one of them, which isn't to say that they shouldn't be used. They will change the mechanics of the exercise, though.

mechanics vs. semantics. where the bar goes isn't that important. unless you compete in PL, squatting is a supporting movement. if you do compete in PL, then put the bar where it works for you and leave it there.

I love the SSB. works especially well if shoulders and elbows give you trouble. buffalo bar is also nice, as is camber bar, and axle... although axle front squats tend to choke me out.
__________________
Practical Strength
Dave Van Skike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2009, 12:39 PM   #19
Ben Smith
New Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 27
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Donnelly View Post
I'm talking about high-bar. It's naturally a much better position to put a bar.


One key theme I remember from Starting Strength is that lifting a higher poundage doesn't necessarily mean you're stronger. That's why you always lift with good technique, pull conventional, keep your ass on the bench, stay out of the triple-ply suits, etc. when you're a novice. However, with regards to the bar position in the squat, that doesn't seem to apply. Rippetoe's reasoning there is that reducing the lever arm of the back lets you use more weight, even though, as he's said elsewhere, more weight doesn't necessarily mean you're any stronger. I also remember a CFJ article where Rippetoe talked about the differences in high and low positions, and how the high was more natural, but the low was superior for one reason or another. In that article, he referenced a friend of his who learned to squat with him, and who lifted high while Rippetoe himself went low. He ended the article with something like "He still thinks high is better, but I always squatted more than he did." There's a total discontinuity there.

Bah, now I'm ranting.

Nah, that doesn't qualify as a rant. It's a legit point. I'd be interested to read the article if you have a reference for it. I've always understood the reduction of the lever arm of the back to be a peripheral benefit (although one greatly appreciated by us long-torso-ed guys), with the main benefit being the ability to *gross oversimplification alert* use more bigger muscle groups. If you're squatting primarily to train the pc (definitely a core assumption), then it makes sense to squat in such a way that the back angle is not the limiting factor.
Ben Smith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2009, 03:10 PM   #20
Gant Grimes
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,373
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Donnelly View Post
I'm talking about high-bar. It's naturally a much better position to put a bar.


One key theme I remember from Starting Strength is that lifting a higher poundage doesn't necessarily mean you're stronger. That's why you always lift with good technique, pull conventional, keep your ass on the bench, stay out of the triple-ply suits, etc. when you're a novice. However, with regards to the bar position in the squat, that doesn't seem to apply. Rippetoe's reasoning there is that reducing the lever arm of the back lets you use more weight, even though, as he's said elsewhere, more weight doesn't necessarily mean you're any stronger. I also remember a CFJ article where Rippetoe talked about the differences in high and low positions, and how the high was more natural, but the low was superior for one reason or another. In that article, he referenced a friend of his who learned to squat with him, and who lifted high while Rippetoe himself went low. He ended the article with something like "He still thinks high is better, but I always squatted more than he did." There's a total discontinuity there.

Bah, now I'm ranting.
You're talking about Phil Anderson, who, IIRC from the article, squatted more than Rip (Rip outpulled him). Rip's argument in SS was against chasing numbers for the sake of numbers. However, one of his justifications for using a low bar position was to use a greater load which lead to more overall strength. You're mixing unlike things.
__________________
"It should be more like birthday party than physics class." | Log | 70's Big
Gant Grimes is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:52 PM.

Powered by vBulletin Version 3.6.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Subscribe to our Newsletter


Receive emails with training tips, news updates, events info, sale notifications and more.
ASK GREG

Submit your question to be answered by Greg Everett in the Performance Menu or on the website

Submit Your Question
WEIGHTLIFTING TEAM

Catalyst Athletics is a USA Weightlifting team of competitive Olympic-style weightlifters with multiple national team medals.

Read More
Olympic Weightlifting Book
Catalyst Athletics
Contact Us
About
Help
Newsletter
Products & Services
Gym
Store
Seminars
Weightlifting Team
Performance Menu
Magazine Home
Subscriber Login
Issues
Articles
Workouts
About the Program
Workout Archives
Exercise Demos
Text Only
Instructional Content
Exercise Demos
Video Gallery
Free Articles
Free Recipes
Resources
Recommended Books & DVDs
Olympic Weightlifting Guide
Discussion Forum
Weight Conversion Calculator