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Old 12-04-2009, 09:40 AM   #11
Adolfo Riveron
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Ive been doing something similar in the last 6 months and i have been progressing nicely.

For the oly lifts i do (8/6/4) and I do either singles or doubles until i hit the target number of reps, also @ 85%, 90%, 95%

Day 1: Handstand practice, Snatch, Font Squat(5/3/1)
Day 2: Rest
Day 3: Lsit practice: Press 531, Deadlifty 531, assistance and/or energy systems work depending on how i feel
Day 4: rest
Day 5: frog tuck practice, Clean and Jerk 8/6/4, Weighted pullups, assistance?
Day 6: rest
DAy 7: rest- try to get some light activity in such as swimming, or work on recovery(have a nice hot tub and sauna at the school gym)
Day 8: Backsquat 531, Bench 531, energy systems and or assistance

Repeat- sometimes i try to get in 4 workouts a week but fro the most part its been 3/week

All lifts including oly have been progressing nicely, however im also somewhat of a beginner in the oly, using relatively small weights: Snatch-140lbs, CJ 200lbs


Hope this helps
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Old 12-04-2009, 11:26 AM   #12
Arien Malec
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Good stuff here.

Kevin's approach is similar to what I went with initially, but I didn't get enough practice with the lifts to keep up my skills and not be a klutz. That's what's driving me to do oly lifting at each session.

Just to be clear, the cycle worked in terms of hitting PRs at each workout, particularly with the squats. The issue I had was with fatigue and klutziness interfering with the quick lifts.

As Ian said, my goal here should be to get enough oly work in that I don't forget how to lift, while I work on my strength goals.

Alex is suggesting more of a bulgarian approach, which, to be clear, works well for me, except that I've got clear strength deficits that I want to work on. Once I get my squat and push press where I need them, my belief is that a more bulgarian approach will get my snatch and c&j where I need them as well.

And Garrett's reminder that I don't need to go balls out each squat session is a good one. I doubt I'll have the discipline not to do so, however...

Adolfo -- when you say 8/6/4, can you elaborate how you set this up -- it's not clear to me...

I'll keep working at this and posting updates, in case any other weak, slow, old people with poor technique want to learn from my pain. Working on the weak & slow part, wish I could work on the old part :-)
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Old 12-04-2009, 03:26 PM   #13
Adolfo Riveron
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First week 8 reps, second week 6 reps, third week 4 reps with 85,90, and 95 percent respectively.

This of course is not in one set, I do as many singles or doubles as it takes to hit the target reps, then increase the weight by only 5 lbs per cycle.

Do whatever you need to do to ramp up to the weight, that depends on how you like warming up
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Old 12-04-2009, 03:36 PM   #14
Garrett Smith
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I'm trying to work on the weak part before the old part catches me...
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Old 12-04-2009, 05:30 PM   #15
Arien Malec
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garrett Smith View Post
I'm trying to work on the weak part before the old part catches me...
I'm ahead of you on the latter, you are ahead of me on the former
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Old 12-04-2009, 05:36 PM   #16
Kelly White
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garrett Smith View Post
Monday: REST
Tuesday: Snatch, 5/3/1 front squats
Wednesday: Gymnastics-based warm-up, 5/3/1 weighted dips
Thursday: REST
Friday: Ankle/hip/t-spine prehab/Jumpstretch
Saturday: Gymnastics-based warm-up, 5/3/1 standing press & weighted chins supersetted
Sunday: C&J, BB hip thrusters

I'm still deciding on my progressions on the OLs in this context. Anyway, maybe it will help.
Garrett,

Do you have anything you can post on your prehab methods? PM if this is the wrong place.
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Old 12-04-2009, 09:14 PM   #17
Garrett Smith
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Here was that one day, I'm always a work in progress:
http://cathletics.com/forum/showpost...&postcount=578

Basically strengthen one side and band-stretch the other.

I've been working a lot of unilateral leg stuff into my routines between sets of upper body, and more stretching of both the upper and lower body between sets of the opposite regions (ie. stretch upper when working lower).

Basically I'm trying to get in my prehab between sets now. Make sure you check out the prehab/rehab sticky thread here, I've put stuff in there.
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Old 12-04-2009, 09:45 PM   #18
Alex Bond
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arien Malec View Post
Alex is suggesting more of a bulgarian approach, which, to be clear, works well for me, except that I've got clear strength deficits that I want to work on. Once I get my squat and push press where I need them, my belief is that a more bulgarian approach will get my snatch and c&j where I need them as well.
You think? I looked at your log, you're back squatting 100kg x10 and snatching 60kg. That seems like an imbalance in favor of strength, I would expect a higher snatch for that squat. Obviously you should get stronger, especially overhead stuff, but if you want to focus on that, do Starting Strength with push presses subbed for presses and alternating front squats and back squats, and don't bother with working hard on the Olympic lifts until you're higher strength-wise. If you want to get your Olys up for a meet or something, go Bulgarian.

Obviously you want to do 5/3/1 (though I'm not sure why, you could probably still make some novice gains and certainly make intermediate gains faster with the Texas method than 5/3/1, which is actually a month-to-month and by definition advanced program), but why are you back squatting when that's something you are relatively strong at? It's not your back squat that is limiting your snatch right now.

It seems like you're trying to do too much. You said that you need to do Olys every session to keep technique sharp. But you want to focus on increasing strength to encourage your lifts up. You have to choose something not to do.

Don't think you need super complicated programming when you don't. I total around 200kg, and I was doing all sorts of complicated programming, and was about to start some 5/3/1, when I realized that I could probably still make some novice gains in strength. I decided to do that SS variant I mentioned above, with the push presses and front squats, and I love it. I'm a lot stronger and I'm sure that after a little bit to remind myself on technique, my lifts will be way up. You don't need complicated programming to spur progress. Get a cheeseburger and do some linear progression, things will work out.

Pick something and do it. If that's strength, do linear progression. If that's Oly, do the 2 lifts and front squats and the Oly assistance moves and go heavy.
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Old 12-04-2009, 11:15 PM   #19
Arien Malec
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Alex --

The comment that I've got a strength deficit is based on a max squat of ~130kg and max push press of 60-65 at a body weight of 90 kg. While my snatch and c&j may be lower than they should be given my squat, I'm objectively too weak overall. If I could front squat what I currently can back squat, I'd be a lot happier, and if I could press, or even push press my bodyweight, I'd be really happy. I definitely feel my jerk is limited by upper body strength, and probably my snatch as well.

I'm done with linear progression, despite the low weights I'm pushing. I tried a SS variant and had to reset a number of times; the choice to go to 5/3/1 was based on how much TM beats the hell out of me from a recovery perspective. (And, before anyone asks, eating enough is definitely not a problem). My push press wasn't responding well to TM back when I tried it. It's not clear what it responds to.

Hmm. Perhaps I just need to work the hell out of my push press, get my front squat up where it should be given my squat, and subordinate everything else to that goal, huh?
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Old 12-05-2009, 06:07 AM   #20
Garrett Smith
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Arien,
I personally don't like the PP...of all the WL exercises, lowering jerk & PP weights from overhead just seems to be a difficult motor pattern for me to get. Maybe I'll get some help from Greg E. if I'm lucky enough to be able to visit his place while I'm in the area.

Anyway, my jerk is my weak point, and I didn't want to do PP. So I'm training C&J like normal, doing 5/3/1 for front squats to build leg strength, doing BB hip thrusts to build strength in that last couple degrees of hip extension, and also training MP as 5/3/1 to get my OH strength up.

FWIW, maybe you'll find something useful.
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