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Old 12-07-2009, 07:08 AM   #11
Jay Ashman
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Originally Posted by Tony Ferous View Post
You should definately work on eating more veggies, or perhaps berries if not to get most of of your antioxidants. Food is most important, but it was a supplement question....
I agree with you, and I should eat more veggies and berries for sure.

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Supp's really depend on how much $$ your prepared to part with and what your goals are.

•B-100 Get any extra B's from a multi
•Cayenne Eat as food as Rob said.
•Ginkgo maybe
I don't make a ton of money but I also have a nice connection that I get good prices from locally on top brands so I spend less than people may think.

Not many multis have a good b complex and quite frankly I believe that any multi that isn't a whole food product isn't well absorbed by the system. Cayenne as food can be a bit excessive to eat, I like hot things, but not all day...

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The below 2 have some pretty compelling human evidence if you ask me, but are pricey.
•Alpha Lipoic Acid Make sure you get the R+ form or dont bother.
•Acetyl L-Carnitine
Yes, these guys get pricey, I get them for cheaper but compared to other things they are still expensive. The evidence for this is staggering, which is why I only take ALA as an antioxidant. No need to overdo it..


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The staple all look sensible before getting into exotics like ala, alc, except B12(get from meat or multi), and why so much fish oil? 3-5g range is usually ok or take even less and top up with salmon/sardines.
I weigh 245 pounds. I take that much because of the recommendation of the amount per bodyweight as per Robb Wolf. It does work for me, my bloodwork proves it, plus I can't stand the taste of fish so this is the only way I get my fish oils.

I shop smart for my stuff, some of it I get at Costco because it is so damn cheap, the rest I get from my local retailer who takes care of me on top of their already good discounts, so I can't complain about that.
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Old 12-07-2009, 08:02 AM   #12
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There's a whole article I wrote for the PMenu on why you DON'T want to do cayenne pepper.
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Old 12-07-2009, 08:18 AM   #13
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I would say in order of importance:

- Fish Oil (liquid)....although if you don't eat alot of nuts, sugar, omega 6s from grain fed animals and eat more sardines/herring....you may not need this at some point.

- Multi-Vit - this is a just an insurance policy vitamin, can't hurt and never know if you may need it. You probably pee out most of it, but oh well.

- Greens (powder) - if you don't eat a ton of veggies (like me) and eat more meats, it is a "just in case" to help keep your body from going too acidic.

- People have found ZMA to work for them (especially if you are more active) so you can try that.


other more popular supplements out there......

- Creatine can help boost strength a bit, and is generally cheap (if you get the plain form of it....not the over-hyped other kinds)

- Protein powders shouldn't even be considered unless you have someone that will not eat enough protein from real foods in the first place (and you need much less than you really think to build/maintain muscle)


Other than that.....eat real foods and plenty of them. There are plenty of people out there big/strong/fast that just eat real foods and have no idea what 99% of the things sold at GNC or on T-Nation are. Go buy a spice rack and get the anti-inflammatory/health benefits from all sorts of natural spices. Don't waste your money on supplements touting a 5% increase in performance when you are not elite enough to have found the other 95% yet.
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Old 12-07-2009, 07:45 PM   #14
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Mike, solid ideas... what Greens Powder would you think is good? I toyed with that idea before a few times.
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Old 12-07-2009, 07:45 PM   #15
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Garrett, what issue was that in? I have them all and I'd hate to have to sift through all of them to find it.
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Old 12-07-2009, 09:35 PM   #16
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Nevermind, found it and read it... I will stop taking the cayenne and see what happens. Good articles.
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Old 12-08-2009, 09:12 AM   #17
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Mike, solid ideas... what Greens Powder would you think is good? I toyed with that idea before a few times.
I'm sure there are expensive ones out there....but no one really knows if one is better than the next. Greens+ seems to be a good brand, but lately I found one at Trader Joes (their brand) for $19, so I use that. It's just a security blanket that is all....so if its not the best out there, I'll still survive I am sure.
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Old 12-13-2009, 02:25 PM   #18
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  • Fish Oil (12 g per day, Costco brand... helps with inflammation and lipid profile)
Robb Wolf pointed out on Episode 2 of his podcast that Kirkland recently changed the labeling on their fish oil. It used to list the amount of DHA/EPA per serving... now here's what it says:

"Total Omega-3 (with EPA + DHA) 300mg"

The Costco website says even more:
"Omega-3 fatty acids (EPA/DHA and other omega-3) 300mg"

Plus, as Robb pointed out, now it contains soy - which I'm guessing is from soybean oil... which in my understanding contains omega-3 fatty acids (though not dha/epa). So, I have a feeling their "natural fish oil concentrate" is simply nothing more than a euphemism for some omega-3's from soybean oil and a actual very small amount of EPA/DHA.

I'm personally dropping the Kirkland and switching over probably to Carlson's from Vitacost. I know there's a number of other fish oil brand suggestions out there but the Carlson's seems to be the best choice for quality/price - someone broke it down by price on Robb's comments under Podcast Episode 2. I don't know if anyone else has information on this... but it seems as if the days of super-cheap but good Kirkland fish oil are over.

All that to say from your list IMO it may be a good idea to fork over a bit more $ especially for the DHA/EPA than shell cash out on other things.
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Old 12-13-2009, 02:28 PM   #19
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son of a bitch... that isn't good news at all...
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Old 12-13-2009, 03:53 PM   #20
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Yeah - I thought the same thing. Supplement industry is pretty much completely bogus... I still have like 2 bottles left of the stuff. I figure it's not going to hurt, so I'll just finish it off and fork over the $ for the Carlsons.

On the subject of crappy supplements... Have you seen Bigger, Faster, Stronger before? They talk a bit about how companies make supplements - "pixie-dusting"/something else to dilute products and hiding it by labeling it as a "complex", "proprietary blend" or other creative wording. They then advertise it misleadingly... basically most everything is a sham...

BTW - Bigger, Faster, Stronger is streaming instantly from Netflix and I know you can get a number of clips on youtube.
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