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Old 12-16-2009, 03:31 AM   #1
Adrian Miles
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Default Patella Tendon Soreness

I've recently started regularly doing squats (3 x 10 @ 70kg and trying to increase load) as part of a rehab program for ITB issues (on top of my normal Crossfit) but have noticed a kind of soreness down the front if my knees. Its not painful or uncomfortable really, just like DOMS but in what I think is the patella tendon.

Just curious to know if this should be happening or if maybe my knees are tracking to far forward and therefore taking more load than they should be?

any advice/opinion would be greatly appreciated.

thanks!
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Old 12-16-2009, 07:11 AM   #2
Steven Low
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Read this... especially sections 3+4 and evaluate yourself:

http://www.eatmoveimprove.com/2009/1...-dysfunctions/

If you have any questions feel free to post them here. BTW, sorry it's long.
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Old 12-16-2009, 09:38 AM   #3
Dave Van Skike
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adrian Miles View Post
I've recently started regularly doing squats (3 x 10 @ 70kg and trying to increase load) as part of a rehab program for ITB issues (on top of my normal Crossfit) but have noticed a kind of soreness down the front if my knees. Its not painful or uncomfortable really, just like DOMS but in what I think is the patella tendon.

Just curious to know if this should be happening or if maybe my knees are tracking to far forward and therefore taking more load than they should be?

any advice/opinion would be greatly appreciated.

thanks!
should not be happening. i've blathered on about knees and squats on this board too much already. ITB problems and knees. not unlike the Wu Tang Clan: NTFW.

voice of experience. fix that problem now
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Old 12-16-2009, 01:07 PM   #4
Adrian Miles
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Thanks guys!

Just to clarify - the ITB is not being aggravated or caused by squatting. The squats are to address many of the issues in the EMI article. (addressing glute strength etc). I am trying my absolute best to maintain correct form and have been given coaching at my affiliate. I am seeing an A.R.T therapist - (but I haven't spoken to him about this yet)

My main issue is this 'soreness'. Its not pain - its like having a sore muscle, but it feels like its in my patella tendon.. It does not affect my ability to squat or run or anything, just a bit annoying the day after squatting. And I'm hoping its not a precurser to some evil tendonitis.

My A.R.T has prescribed squats with feet out at approx 45 degrees to activate the vastus med more I think. Would that have anything to do with it?

Thanks again for the input
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Old 12-16-2009, 01:39 PM   #5
Dave Van Skike
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adrian Miles View Post
Thanks guys!

Just to clarify - the ITB is not being aggravated or caused by squatting. The squats are to address many of the issues in the EMI article. (addressing glute strength etc). I am trying my absolute best to maintain correct form and have been given coaching at my affiliate. I am seeing an A.R.T therapist - (but I haven't spoken to him about this yet)

My main issue is this 'soreness'. Its not pain - its like having a sore muscle, but it feels like its in my patella tendon.. It does not affect my ability to squat or run or anything, just a bit annoying the day after squatting. And I'm hoping its not a precurser to some evil tendonitis.

My A.R.T has prescribed squats with feet out at approx 45 degrees to activate the vastus med more I think. Would that have anything to do with it?

Thanks again for the input

ITB screw ups are usually indicative of something, so even if ITB doesn't get worse there is still a hip function thing to sort out.

my opinion about the foot angle and VMO may be ill informed but I think prescription sounds like utter BS. if you have a sleepy VMO you have tracking problems, if you have tracking problems they start as a soreness in the p. tendon..it is subtle at first. it goes downhill if not attended to. knees and squats are like certain advanced sexual practices..if it hurts, you're doing it wrong.

i'm not a doctor but here's something i would try and see if it works for you. as an interim squat technique to build some hip drive and flexibilty.

try to squat in a wide stance to a medium high box. when i say medium I mean you're right at parallel, not below, not really above. when i say wide i mean heels fully an inch plus outside shoulder width, and by shoulder width I mean the outside of your shoulders, not heel in line with shoulder socket...i mean wide. at first you may have a hard time gettign to eh box without plopping. like all regualr squats drive your knees apart going down and on the way up.

start by doing these unweighted. shins should be perpendicular to the floor or even knees behind shins. develop some hip drive and hip mobility. you should be able to do this without aggravating either knee or hip (ITB)...

try and see. look up "terminal knee extensions" for another VMO option.
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Old 12-17-2009, 03:57 AM   #6
Adrian Miles
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Thanks for the ideas. I'm definitely going to give them a go.

The A.R.T guy did have me squatting in an almost sumo-like stance, much wider than I normally would - but with toes pointed outwards up to 45 degrees like I mentioned previously.

Really want to get the knees and hips super strong. I'm aiming for a 100km trail run in about 4 mths. Overshooting probably at this stage.

But like you said- if it's hurting, it's wrong.
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Old 12-17-2009, 08:42 AM   #7
Dave Van Skike
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sounds like the ART guy and I are coming up with the same thing. so maybe we're both full of it....

do try the box, will help teach you to open your hips and use hips to drive up.
good luck
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Old 12-17-2009, 01:47 PM   #8
Steven Low
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Wide is good for now get all of the tissues moving correctly.

Work on your mobility/flexibility so you can do closer together sooner rather than later though.
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Old 12-17-2009, 04:06 PM   #9
Brandon Oto
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I posted a bunch of stuff recently on what worked for me on the knee issue, but if you're at an early stage I'd probably just say: be absolutely 100% certain your knees always always track over your feet.

People think they're good but in reality when they come out of the hole their knees dive in, whether a lot or just a wriggle. Do not allow this. "Knees out" may become your primary cue when squatting.
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Old 12-17-2009, 10:44 PM   #10
Adrian Miles
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Brandon do you have a link to where you posted what worked? You have an awful lot of posts on here and I can't seem to find it. Apologies.

My ITB is getting better from the strength work (squats) that I'm doing. My two constant cues are: knees out and maintain lumbar curve.

The last ITB issue I had, I believe, was from not managing it properly, had tight glutes, lower back and hamstrings from deadlifts the day before. But now this strange patella 'stiffness/soreness' - very strange, can't seem to find anything much about that part of it.
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