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Old 12-29-2009, 07:00 PM   #21
Steve Romer
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Originally Posted by Neill Smith View Post
CF could not be a Ponzi scheme. Ponzi schemes, by definition, take investment and pay returns on that investment. It's a scheme because money from today's investors is used to pay off yesterday's investors. If there are no investors tomorrow, it collapses. CF isn't an investment vehicle.
I agree that CF isn't a Ponzi Scheme; it runs more like a cult. All profits are funneled to a few at the top and everyone else get very little in return except for joy of being in the CF Cult.
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Old 12-29-2009, 07:25 PM   #22
Ganine Vanalst
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Originally Posted by Steve Romer View Post
everyone else get very little in return except for joy of being in the CF Cult.
I don't think we're happy enough. I'll teach ya to be happy:

Happy Happy Joy Joy

(Oh, not w/f/s)

Ban them!!! hahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 12-29-2009, 07:46 PM   #23
Justin Herring
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Originally Posted by Garrett Smith View Post
Parker,
Nothing against your personal mission here, but I don't have the time or inclination to go to the courthouse to find anything.

CF won't have much to stand on if they try to "protect" the word CrossFit, based on this landmark case in NY on the word "Pilates":
Court overturns Pilates Trademarks
***
CASE CLOSED.
Just to be clear, originality or value have nothing to do with trademarks (they are required for patents though). Trademarks are about brands. You can trademark a freaking bottle of water that is identical to tap water.

If Crossfit ends up like Pilates, it will be because the term has become a generic descriptor for a certain type of exercise, not because they are not original (or not effective, or not disclosed, or lacking in specificity, etc.).

This is explained here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genericized_trademark

This is why Coke sometimes pays people to go around and make sure that other company's soda is not referred to as Coke. This is why I couldn't trademark "weightlifting!" as the exclusive brand of my new company.
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Old 12-29-2009, 07:47 PM   #24
Justin Herring
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Originally Posted by Parker Willis View Post
I think the Ponzi scheme comparison is there because the achilles heel of any Ponzi scheme is the lack of sustainable (albeit explosive) growth from which to draw. Right now, people are lining up to go to a cert, but how many people can you certify? Will it continue, or will it dry up?
***
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Originally Posted by Steve Romer View Post
I agree that CF isn't a Ponzi Scheme; it runs more like a cult. All profits are funneled to a few at the top and everyone else get very little in return except for joy of being in the CF Cult.
This is what happens 90% of the time when a privately owned company experiences major success. The owners make bank. The customers get to be customers.

The fact that crossfit is a big financial success is not surprising, it isn't a secret, and it isn't nefarious. People get rich every day in this country selling everything under the sun.

Nor is a business that grows explosively for a while and then flat-lines or crashes because its popularity diminishes "like a ponzi scheme" or "like a fraud." It happens to lots of businesses. Sometimes they go up, sometimes they go down.

Look, I'm all about Robb Wolf etc, but sometimes this crossfit hate gets out of hand.
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Old 12-29-2009, 08:06 PM   #25
Brandon Oto
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Really interesting and tasteful work, Parker.
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Old 12-29-2009, 09:04 PM   #26
Garrett Smith
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin Herring View Post
Just to be clear, originality or value have nothing to do with trademarks (they are required for patents though). Trademarks are about brands. You can trademark a freaking bottle of water that is identical to tap water.

If Crossfit ends up like Pilates, it will be because the term has become a generic descriptor for a certain type of exercise, not because they are not original (or not effective, or not disclosed, or lacking in specificity, etc.).

This is explained here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genericized_trademark

This is why Coke sometimes pays people to go around and make sure that other company's soda is not referred to as Coke. This is why I couldn't trademark "weightlifting!" as the exclusive brand of my new company.
Justin,
CF Inc., according to someone who was within, has very little to no history of defending their mark and IP. I think you hit the nail on the head...genericide is likely to occur with the CF name.
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Old 12-29-2009, 09:14 PM   #27
George Mounce
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin Herring View Post
This is what happens 90% of the time when a privately owned company experiences major success. The owners make bank. The customers get to be customers.

The fact that crossfit is a big financial success is not surprising, it isn't a secret, and it isn't nefarious. People get rich every day in this country selling everything under the sun.

Nor is a business that grows explosively for a while and then flat-lines or crashes because its popularity diminishes "like a ponzi scheme" or "like a fraud." It happens to lots of businesses. Sometimes they go up, sometimes they go down.

Look, I'm all about Robb Wolf etc, but sometimes this crossfit hate gets out of hand.
CrossFit hate never gets out of hand. If you don't care and don't want to be part of the process of looking into how they run their finances, then it seems you don't want to help Parker. That is fine, and your choice. But don't sit here and troll the thread to try and turn it away from what he is trying to do. That is the mod's decision on whether they want it on their forum.

This isn't even close to the hate, go to IGX, and you'll see there is a heck of a lot more to this over the years.
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Old 12-29-2009, 09:27 PM   #28
Clay Jones
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin Herring View Post
The fact that crossfit is a big financial success is not surprising, it isn't a secret, and it isn't nefarious. People get rich every day in this country selling everything under the sun.
I have to agree here. No one is forcing anyone to take a cert. However, I do sometimes wonder as to their effectiveness and whether they represent a good investment.

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Originally Posted by Ganine Vanalst View Post

Ban them!!! hahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Gee, thanks . . . now I have that song stuck in my head.
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Old 12-29-2009, 09:38 PM   #29
Steve Romer
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Originally Posted by George Mounce View Post
CrossFit hate never gets out of hand. If you don't care and don't want to be part of the process of looking into how they run their finances, then it seems you don't want to help Parker. That is fine, and your choice. But don't sit here and troll the thread to try and turn it away from what he is trying to do. That is the mod's decision on whether they want it on their forum.

This isn't even close to the hate, go to IGX, and you'll see there is a heck of a lot more to this over the years.
Well said George.

Justin I do not hate CF, but as a businessman I can tell you CFHQ runs their business as a cult. The level 1 and 2 cert money is not shared with the hosting affiliate. Every cent of the cert''s money are funneled back to CFHQ and the affiliates are left with nothing except for the good feelings of hosting the Cert for CFHQ. That is just one example of cult behavior of the CF cult. Their treatment of Robb and Greg is another and their banning of those people who question the excommunications of Robb and Greg is a third. I could go on but I think I made my point.
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Old 12-29-2009, 09:45 PM   #30
Brad Miles
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Glassman says in the video in the beginning here are some numbers 500,000 journal subscriptions. 500,000x $25= $12,500,000

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUj5YAnA0bQ sfw the evolution
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