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Old 02-12-2007, 03:29 AM   #31
Jonas Lind
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That is a beautiful lift.
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Old 02-12-2007, 06:48 AM   #32
Mike ODonnell
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robb Wolf View Post
Case in point:Mikhail Koklyaev 6'4"...I think that is taller than everyone moaning about their lever disadvantages. In this video we see him pull almost 900lbs on the DL.
ok now I want to complain I am not tall enough after seeing that video....damn....

I do agree the trap bar is more a squat movement than a DL pull.
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Old 02-12-2007, 09:11 AM   #33
Allen Yeh
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Wow nice video.

150 kg muscle snatch....I couldn't get that amount of weight overhead at all. Sheesh.
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Old 02-12-2007, 10:38 AM   #34
Elliot Royce
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I'm kinda late to the thread but I think that flat back, unrounded form is both possible and highly desirable. Also agree that rounded back lifting has its developmental purpose.

Not a fan of the trap bar DL. Turns a posterior chain movement into more quad work IMO.
Unless one is anally competitive (or a powerlifter) I suppose it really doesn't matter whether my lever advantage at 6'3" and very long femurs is better or worse than someone else. However, just for the academics of it, it would seem to me that a longer lever length will require more effort but will produce more force. As Mike points out, the lever is travelling through a much longer arc than a shorter one. In effect, taller lifters are stronger given the same weight lifted because they are lifting the weight through the greater distance (they are producing more force). Is this not correct (I'm not an engineer)?

As for the trap bar, it's an accommodation to allow me to keep a flat back. I'm getting better in flexibility but not quite there yet. And I certainly feel my glutes on every lift I do. If you don't need a trap bar to get a level back, then I agree completely, why bother?
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Old 02-12-2007, 11:02 AM   #35
Ron Nelson
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OK, I'm going out on a limb here, but bear with my inexperience and take it as my conclusions about me. I have a feeling that most of the complaints from us "tall" lifters (6'3" and up) come from a lack of foundation strength in our mid-section. Again, maybe this is just me, but my deadlift used to kill my back. That was until I tried out Rippetoe's suggestions on bar placement, and stepped up in my assistant lifts (RDL's, good mornings, rack pulls). Also, using the God-forsaken Hammer Strength shrug as a DL trainer upped my bar DL.

I guess what I'm trying to say is this: we tall lifters do have an advantage if we use our long, monkey arms to get down to the bar. We just need to be strong in the middle to build the adequate support pressure to get the pull all the way up. So, in retrospect, maybe we are better pullers than I first thought.

By the way, my max DL is about 50lbs more than my max squat. Sad, I know.
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Old 02-12-2007, 11:11 AM   #36
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Fair point, Ron. One thing my O lifting coach is working on with me is scapular retraction and keeping that hard across the back as I lift. Over the years I've learned to use my long arms (36") to reach for things rather than moving the body. The consequence is that I overuse my arms rather than the strong back muscles. What he has me doing now is to do a T stretch and then drop the arms directly down to the side, then bend over at the waist to the bar. That helps to prevent the curl the shoulders approach I had before.

Actually for me, my max deadlift is like 100lbs above my squat, but that only goes to show how low both are.
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Old 02-12-2007, 12:56 PM   #37
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if you're using a high-hipped DL (as you should if you have long legs), DLing won't be too bad--that relatively short torso means a smaller mechanical disadvantage for the muscles moving it.

the tall people = tough squats and DL line of thinking is focused on those long legs. first, the long legs make getting into what most people would condsider a proper DL starting position pretty much impossible--the knees have to be pushed way over the bar to get the hips low and chest up--but to move the bar, the knees must come back, therefore the hips must rise, therefore that starting position is pointless. if you're ok with something closer to a stiff-legged DL (which you should be), then DLing will be fine.

squatting with long legs is just going to suck no matter how you do it, though. longer bones means the muscles moving them are operating under greater mechanical disadvantage. the better mechanics of shorter lifters is primarily responsible for their ability to far outlift their taller counterparts relative to bodyweight. same reason gymnasts tend to be short--shorter levers = less mechanical disadvantage.
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Old 02-12-2007, 02:14 PM   #38
Eva Claire Synkowski
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squatting with long legs is just going to suck no matter how you do it, though.
you said it. granted - im still hampered by lack of flexibility, but i jerk more than i back squat. (yes, i know thats pathetic)

and im all about the stiff-legged dl - only way i can dl pain free.
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Old 02-12-2007, 02:25 PM   #39
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well, it's not all bad, right? Unless your end product is a DL or a squat, the taller lifter should in many cases get the advantage in the end. Take crew, basketball or hockey. Long lever arms....tough for the exercise....but loads more extension in the sport movement, no?
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Old 02-12-2007, 02:36 PM   #40
Eva Claire Synkowski
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Take crew, basketball or hockey. Long lever arms....tough for the exercise....but loads more extension in the sport movement, no?
no, youre right. being tall isnt fun in the gym, but its good on the golf course.....
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