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Old 01-26-2010, 12:29 PM   #1
Rafe Kelley
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Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 148
Default Programming advice needed

For those unfamiliar with me, my primary focus is parkour, and I want to develop more jumping power, running speed, and strength for manipulating my body. I was making very good progress through last spring but have stagnated and regressed since the summer.

I started running 5/3/1 in september with gymnastics work(tuck planche, l-hold, press shoulder stand on p-bars and straddle press handstand back to a wall) as my primary accesory training.

In my last two cycles I have seen steady improvement in my climb and I have added pounds and reps to pull ups and dips consistently over, but my barbell lifts are not progressing well and neither are my gymnastics holds or jumping. When I started 5/3/1 in septemeber my rep tests indicated maxs of 223 bench, 149 press, 387 squat, and 407 Deadlift, I could hold a nice l-hold for 30 seconds, not get my tuck planche with toes above the bar, and do an ok straddled press back to a wall, my vert was 27 inches(down from a high of 32 in the spring) and my standing broad was 9^4 and my best box jump was 49.

My last cycle through indicates, 224 bench, 161 press, 354 squat, and 433 deadlift. So stagnant on bench, regression on squat, some progress on Deadlift and pretty nice progress on press. Its harder to quantify my gymnastics hold progression but there is no apparent progression. My jumps are steady despite injury, 27 VJ, 9^5 BrJ, 49 inch box jump.

Theres some explanations for this, first and formost the earlier squat number has to be thrown out because prior to this cycle my squat depth was not legit. Then I have had some interruption or injury in almost every cycle, back injury, foot injury, holidays, and in this last cycle I was cutting weight. I have also messed around allot with 4, 3 or 2 day barbell splits with changing assistance work. All in all perhaps I should be happy for any progress. However I can't help feeling antsy and wanting to try something different. Four month seems like a legitimate amount of time to be on one program if you not really seeing results.

I am going back and fourth about seeing if I progress better with my injuries resolved and back to a positive calorie balance. On the other hand I have progressed well in the past on high intensity and low volume so I was thinking about using an approach like Barry ross outlines in "underground secrets for running faster": especially since my primary goals are increased jumping power and running speed though I am hesitant to jetison the squat at least before I have legitimately done double bodyweight I have also looked at the texas method. My strength goals are a 400+ squat, 500+ dead, and dip and pull ups with 100+, straddle press to handstand, open tuck planche 5 seconds, and front lever 5 seconds, power speed goals to VJ 35, broad jump 10+ feet, run the 40 in 4.5 and be able to single movement muscle ups on most surfaces.

Advice appreciated.
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Old 01-26-2010, 03:57 PM   #2
Gavin Harrison
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My only suggestion is to trim your goals a bit. Squatting a lot almost requires bulk, especially if you want it to progress quickly. Deadlifting doesn't as much. Same holds for bench and overhead pressing. This will be detrimental to your gymnastics goals, at least the big squat and deadlift. Also, I don't know much about gymnastics or running/jumping, but it's easy to see how having bulky legs will be detrimental to the gymnastics.
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Old 01-26-2010, 05:21 PM   #3
Steven Low
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Yeah, I'd tend to cut out squat at least for now since it's more of a mass builder than even DLs.

Focus only on 3-4 things at once, and all assistance exercises dedicated towards those. Once you start getting more advanced you can't focus on more than a few things at once without giving up results in other areas.

At this point in your training you may have to alternate with strength and power focused work. Parkous is plyomemtric in nature, but you still probably need to add some stuff to make the rebounds and static explosiveness stronger as just opposed to squats and DLs. Doing it at all once tends not to work too well though.
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Old 01-31-2010, 11:01 PM   #4
Rafe Kelley
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The message seems to be simplify which works for me. I have been reading through the underground secrets for running faster and power to the people. My goals are primarily speed and power based but I feel my strength base is not quite were I need it be to fully pursue those goals. I think a strength phase form now till march 15th with speed and power phase from march 15th to june 1st in preparation for a summer skill focus seems appropriate.

Strength Focus goals, Pull up and dip + 100 Pounds, Deadlift 500, press to handstand any kind.

Speed Power goals, 4.6 40, 35 inch vert, 10 foot standing broad, 16 foot running precision 5 step run up.

I will continue working sprinting, doing plyos, and obviously lots of parkour practice during the strength phase but the first thing I train and my primary focus will remain on strength. I am also feeling a desire for a more varied and intutive approach so I am going to include variations of the basics, and do variable assistance work based on feel. Goal will be CNS strength focus alla PTP and USFRF so lots of rest between sets and a focus on developing as little fatigue as possible.

Monday: AM Deadlift 3x3, supersetted with 3x3 drop broad jump and drop box jumps, pull ups for 3,5,max, dip 3,5,max, assistance work
PM parkour skill work
Tuesday AM Snatch grip Deadlift 3x5, weighted box climb ups 3x5
Sprints
PM: Parkour skill work
Wednesday depending on recovery, light parkour run, trail run, or hike
Thursday AM Deadlift 7x1, supersetted with plyos as above only single leg, weighted dips and pull ups 5x3, assistance work
PM: Parkour Skill work
Friday: AM: RDL 3x8, Push press 3x5, box climb ups 3x5
PM: Rest
Saturday: Parkour

Assistance work, will generally be, single leg and lateral lower body movements, single arm or dynamic upper body movements(rock climbing dynos, muscle ups, push press variations), or very short metabolic work outs 3 minutes or less.

Primary goals: Solidify strength base necessary for speed and power .
Secondary goals: maintain speed and power and set groundwork for speed and power phase.
Tertiary goals: Maintain general conditioning, continue improving biomechanics, lean out(currently 200 at 11-13 percent want to get down to 190 at 8-10)

Any advice is welcome.
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Old 01-31-2010, 11:27 PM   #5
Gavin Harrison
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If you have any energy left at the end of the week, let me know

Especially since you'll be:
A) Doing 5 days per week high volume strength work.
B) Doing 6 days per week of parkour/sprint/plyo training
C) Dieting

Give it a shot if you want, but I'd stick with 5/3/1 with a template like the triumvirate, with "hard" conditioning on Squat and Deadlift days, and Steady State conditioning on bench and press days (working out 3 days a week). This is pretty much what Wendler recommends if you're trying to get stronger and stay in decent condition:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=121773841
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Old 01-31-2010, 11:40 PM   #6
Rafe Kelley
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I will be doing 4 days of strength work(same as 5/3/1) but the volume will actually be lower then 5/3/1 but more focused and of higher intensity. I wont be doing sets across, I will have 3 work sets but the will be working up I will stop when I weight or fatigue make me start to feel like grinding. There is 6 days of activity but wednesday is a recovery work out, and my intensity on the other Parkour trainings will be Dependant on recovery from the strength work.

The question marks I have are where to schedule the press to handstand work? If the plyometric work is enough volume and variety of drills, and tips on the sprint work. I was just going to do warm up followed 6x40, 4x60, or 2x100. Any other tips on the sprinting or plyos would be great.
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Old 02-01-2010, 06:23 AM   #7
Steven Low
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It seems reasonable given you are fairly conditioned.

We'll see though. Good luck.
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Old 02-01-2010, 10:47 AM   #8
Rafe Kelley
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Steven any thoughts on were to programm in the press to handstand? I can not do presses at all after deadlifts but I am worried that if i do it before hand it will fatigue my core to much lowering my potential in the DL. Priorities priorities, I have been thinking about adding it at the beggining of my Parkour but its hard to find the right set up if i am training outside.
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Old 02-01-2010, 05:06 PM   #9
Andrew Wilson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafe Kelley View Post
For those unfamiliar with me, my primary focus is parkour, and I want to develop more jumping power, running speed, and strength for manipulating my body. I was making very good progress through last spring but have stagnated and regressed since the summer.

I started running 5/3/1 in september with gymnastics work(tuck planche, l-hold, press shoulder stand on p-bars and straddle press handstand back to a wall) as my primary accesory training.

In my last two cycles I have seen steady improvement in my climb and I have added pounds and reps to pull ups and dips consistently over, but my barbell lifts are not progressing well and neither are my gymnastics holds or jumping. When I started 5/3/1 in septemeber my rep tests indicated maxs of 223 bench, 149 press, 387 squat, and 407 Deadlift, I could hold a nice l-hold for 30 seconds, not get my tuck planche with toes above the bar, and do an ok straddled press back to a wall, my vert was 27 inches(down from a high of 32 in the spring) and my standing broad was 9^4 and my best box jump was 49.

My last cycle through indicates, 224 bench, 161 press, 354 squat, and 433 deadlift. So stagnant on bench, regression on squat, some progress on Deadlift and pretty nice progress on press. Its harder to quantify my gymnastics hold progression but there is no apparent progression. My jumps are steady despite injury, 27 VJ, 9^5 BrJ, 49 inch box jump.

Theres some explanations for this, first and formost the earlier squat number has to be thrown out because prior to this cycle my squat depth was not legit. Then I have had some interruption or injury in almost every cycle, back injury, foot injury, holidays, and in this last cycle I was cutting weight. I have also messed around allot with 4, 3 or 2 day barbell splits with changing assistance work. All in all perhaps I should be happy for any progress. However I can't help feeling antsy and wanting to try something different. Four month seems like a legitimate amount of time to be on one program if you not really seeing results.

I am going back and fourth about seeing if I progress better with my injuries resolved and back to a positive calorie balance. On the other hand I have progressed well in the past on high intensity and low volume so I was thinking about using an approach like Barry ross outlines in "underground secrets for running faster": especially since my primary goals are increased jumping power and running speed though I am hesitant to jetison the squat at least before I have legitimately done double bodyweight I have also looked at the texas method. My strength goals are a 400+ squat, 500+ dead, and dip and pull ups with 100+, straddle press to handstand, open tuck planche 5 seconds, and front lever 5 seconds, power speed goals to VJ 35, broad jump 10+ feet, run the 40 in 4.5 and be able to single movement muscle ups on most surfaces.

Advice appreciated.
You need to be doing elastic strength training like oly, push press, rack jerks, the static strength training in 5/3/1 is going to hinder the contractile speed and stretch shortening cyc in the musc.
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Old 02-01-2010, 05:43 PM   #10
Steven Low
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When are your training sessions?

You can do handstand work hours afterwards or earlier in the day. It's mostly skill anyway so it shouldn't be that taxing.
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