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Old 02-21-2010, 01:35 AM   #11
Derek Weaver
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Any update from Mike on testing readiness?
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Old 02-21-2010, 02:08 AM   #12
Donald Lee
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Originally Posted by Derek Weaver View Post
Any update from Mike on testing readiness?
Nope. Mike is good about updating the content on his site, but I don't feel like this stuff is about to come out any time soon. It seems like you need to the Tendo to track readiness, which is fairly expensive, but not as expensive as the OmegaWave. I think the Tendo is about 5k. It tracks power output, so I guess it can tell when your bar speed is low. I haven't read too much into it, so I'm not certain.
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Old 04-08-2010, 06:32 AM   #13
Mark Fenner
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I posted this years ago on the DB Hammer Forums.

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As far as building a home made force plate (which I've been contemplating, but haven't gotten around to):

Google: "rod cross" force plate

for ideas about building a force plate for physics classroom experiments. There are a few other sites out there that talk about similar stuff: one is a senior undergrad physics project. He gives a more detailed protocol with tolerances for the steel plate, etc. I don't have that link, unfortunately [update: found it!].

http://www.prin.edu/college/academic...te/althans.htm


Also, Cross emailed me the following:

Quote:

You can buy a fairly cheap ($400 ?) force plate modelled on my design
from Vernier Instruments in the USA. If you want to have the fun of
making your own then almost any piezo will work provided it is about
3mm to 5 mm thick. The piezos I used were about 30 mm square, but
any similar size will work. eg 25 mm x 25 mm or 25 mm x 40 mm will
also work. The Vernier design uses strain gauges rather than piezos,
and is probably better than mine.


Note, the Vernier unit is now about $200 but it's only really sized for one foot at a time (buy two of them?).

See:
http://www.vernier.com/probes/fp-bta.html

Note that I'm note sure that the range of force it measures is suitable for all sports related tasks (what's a reasonable upper bound for ground reaction forces at landing for 200 lbs. from 3 feet?). On the plus side, I think Vernier's stuff will play nicely with various software packages (so you're not locked in to their expensive software ... though, I might be wrong).

Piezo elements can be expensive if they are built to very high tolerances. For our purposes, relatively shoddy piezos would probably do the trick.
Two follow ups:

(1) Piezo film is relatively inexpensive.

(2) More directly related to the tendo unit: Guess what Bluetooth capable device has a built-in accelerometer? The Wii joystick/controllers. Yes folks, that's right, if you have (just a bit of time), you could duct tape a WiiMote (or whatever they are called) to a barbell and just about instantaneously get acceleration data from your lifts. There is even software to grab the data available for free.

I've had a WiiMote in my Amazon wishlist for several years -- just don't have the time to carry the project through. Maybe this summer?

Best,
Mark
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Old 04-11-2010, 07:36 AM   #14
Shawn Lawlor
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The WiiMote thing sounds interesting!

Any idea where I might find some software?

Thanks for the great idea!
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Old 04-12-2010, 06:59 AM   #15
Don Stevenson
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The Iphone has also got a built in accelerometer and apps available to output the data.

As far as i can see though the current apps just output the peak g force in each direction and don't have output for distance travelled.

I was thinking about this the other day because i've always wanted to do some power measurement stuff but the current devices available are fairly expensive.

I'll download a few of the Iphone apps now and see if there is anything useful and perhaps then someone with a bit more technical know how can tell me how to fudge the numbers to get useful data out of it.
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Old 04-12-2010, 08:26 AM   #16
Mark Fenner
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawn Lawlor View Post
The WiiMote thing sounds interesting!

Any idea where I might find some software?

Thanks for the great idea!
First hit on google is:
http://www.wiiprojects.org/bluetooth.html

Generally, google for "bluetooth wiimote software" or some variants.

If your computer doesn't have a bluetooth receiver (many laptops have them built in), you can get a USB bluetooth receiver for fairly cheap.

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Originally Posted by Don Stevenson View Post
The Iphone has also got a built in accelerometer and apps available to output the data.

As far as i can see though the current apps just output the peak g force in each direction and don't have output for distance travelled.
Iphones are expensive enough (to me, at least) that I wouldn't use one for this purpose. You can get a WiiMote on amazon for ~$25. Even if the accelerometer doesn't give you distance (directly) you can:

(1) use a tape measure and/or approximate the length of the lifting motion (better for more static positions: deadlift, bench press; harder for squat (did you make depth?); even harder for Oly lifts: was that a power clean or a deep squat clean -- however, you can always approximate).

Or (2), you can always use calculus: rate of change of distance is speed; rate of change of speed is acceleration. Integrate acceleration, you get speed; integrate speed you get distance. Now, you do have those pesky "+ C"s (integrating introduces an arbitrary constant into the process) to worry about: fortunately, we know two constraints for the barbell lifts: at time = 0, the speed is 0 and at time = 0, the distance traveled is 0.

From these you can get power, compute work, etc. Realistically, if you just want to know when you're wearing out you can just superimpose your acceleration graphs and visually compare it. If you want massive amounts of data to toy with, that's a completely separate beast .

Best,
Mark
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Old 04-14-2010, 06:35 AM   #17
Gant Grimes
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Thanks for posting, Donald. I'm sorry I'm just getting around to this.

It does sound promising, but I'm hesitant to embrace something that says I should feel differently than I (and many others) have after years of training. However, some good people are following his methods, so this bears watching.

PS This is way, WAY more physics class than birthday party.
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Old 04-14-2010, 08:08 AM   #18
Donald Lee
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HAHA. I sure hope that birthday party comment comes around to bite him more often.

Joel Jaimeson has also been working on similar low tech stuff, but Joel is working on something for mixed modal sports. He's been working with OmegaWave, so I'm sure it'll be good. I tried to get the two to correspond, but the last time I asked Joel, it doesn't look like they did.

Here's what Mike T. wrote this week:

Quote:
The TRAC stuff is something that is still in development, but I'm using it in my own training. TRAC stands for Training Recovery Assessment Computer. It's a series of tests that we use to assess total body stress, Autonomic Nervous System (ANS) balance, CNS Readiness, and Adaptive Reserves. We do this with a fairly simple and somewhat commonplace battery of tests. The tests include an orthostatic heart rate test, a reaction time test, and a tap test. What is revolutionary -- and what allows us to make these assessments without special equipment -- is the methods that the data is analyzed. This has been literally years in the making and I've invested quite a bit of my own money in the R&D program. The beta test showed excellent results and we're to the point now where we're moving forward with development.

TRAC has shown a great deal of accuracy. What this allows us to do as athletes is custom tailor our training loads to actual physiological response. For example, let's look at Stress. This is a great parameter to adjust training volume to. And it's not something you would typically "feel". I have felt great some days, but tested High or Severe stress. I've felt terrible some days and tested Low stress (these are the gut-check days). And I've had days where I agree with the stress assessment. The thing is in most cases, the physiological assessment is way MORE reliable than your own subjective assessment.

That's just the start. Stress is a fantastic indicator for appropriate training volumes. ANS can tell you what kinds of stress your body is dealing with and specifically what to do about it. CNS can also guide your training efforts a great deal. Adaptive reserves go hand in hand with stress. It's a really cool system. I'll definitely be writing more about it as it gets closer to release.
Quote:
Intensity is a bit more complicated. That's actually what our R&D guys are working on now -- how to predict performance, which should give us an idea of how to autoregulate intensity better.

You do the TRAC test every morning. From a traditional RTS approach, you modify your plan based on the TRAC results. Lets say you are supposed to have a GPP day.... Well, if you test Sympathetic Dominant on your ANS, then that will influence what KIND of GPP work you do for that day. It will all be laid out in the Training Recommendations section of the TRAC Report.

Another example... Let's say you are supposed to train today, but when you get up you test High Stress. In that case, if your schedule can accommodate it, you would be best served by bumping the training to the next day. If your schedule can't accommodate it, you would reduce the stress level for that day's session.
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Old 04-14-2010, 08:21 AM   #19
Gant Grimes
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I like the idea. I get what he's saying about physiological assessments vs. subjective self-assessments. When I incorporated a HR monitor into mountain bike training, my results improved drastically (perceived stress had little to do with actual HR stress).

I'm making my way through Jamieson's stuff right now. I have received his newsletter for quite some time. One of my staples is now doing one of Dan John's complexes (for 5x8, ascending weight) and HRIs on the prowler.

I look forward to seeing more of this.
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Old 04-14-2010, 09:56 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Gant Grimes View Post
PS This is way, WAY more physics class than birthday party.
Compared to my day job ... this is the birthday party.

Best,
Mark
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