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Old 10-01-2008, 02:58 PM   #131
Garrett Smith
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I think there is a basic theme that runs through this.

The more "internal" resources one uses earlier in life, whether it is for achievement or to develop muscle mass over the normal setpoint (ie. eating more than one would want to normally to gain mass), can result in an enhanced ability/potential for reproduction, but may be detrimental to longevity, and vice versa.

Is life a sprint or a marathon to the person?
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Old 10-01-2008, 08:03 PM   #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garrett Smith View Post
Is life a sprint or a marathon to the person?
I like to think of it as a lazy river......
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Old 11-15-2008, 11:53 AM   #133
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Q: Anyone familiar with studies on aging and heavy weight training ? What are the general findings ?

I know the "current conventional wisdom" is that weight training is excellent for the aging population, but just how valid is that position. What is the downside, if any ?

Background: Health / Longevity is my primary motivation for training, and I would add a third after another "/" ie; vitality.

Sometimes I look at Transformetrics.com. It is a BW (exclusive)oriented site. There is much talk there of "busted up weight lifters syndrome" ie; the legion of iron veterans with myriad joint pain/dysfunction issues.

I am 48. In younger life I trained at martial arts, and did some long distance jogging, up to marathon distance. ( BTW, "most folks" think LSD is great. Yet, there seem to be a few deaths in every marathon. I buy DeVaney's reasons marathons are bad, etc.)

In recent years, I've been more attracted to the "brief,frequent,intense" model w/ KBs., C2, HeavyBag, Slideboard, etc.

Feeling I'd like to be stronger, I am about to launce into a few months of 5x5 BB training. I was directed to Transformetrics and that "busted up weight lifter's syndrome" put a some healthy "fear of the Lord" into me. (ie; Proceed with caution!) At first glance, it seemed the support there was anecdotal, (talk of the toll weight takes on beasts of burden and historically, slaves during the pre-Civil War era, etc.) I am not dismissing anecdotal evidence, ( when it my anecdote, it is the most compelling ) but I'd like to "weigh" (sorry,) that against more formal studies. I thought I'd like to hear what folks hear have to say.

TIA,

Eddie
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Old 11-15-2008, 12:47 PM   #134
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This guy http://hes.cahs.colostate.edu/Facult...istopher.Bell/ has done a lot of work on exercise and aging. He spoke at a health seminar that my company sponsors and he believes that strength training, specifically weight training, is a must for healthy ageing. Loss of muscle mass and strength is what puts most people into nursing homes.

I don't believe there is a "busted up weight lifters syndrome", though there are certainly busted up weight lifters. Lifting heavy incurs some risk of injury, and as we get older we tend to get stiffer and may develop arthritis or other issues which increase risk of injury. If you use reasonable care, there is no reason why you shouldn't do barbell training. Use good form and get strong.
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Old 11-16-2008, 06:55 AM   #135
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Any training modality can be done to excess, whether it is in reps (cals & BW stuff) or weight.

Combine excessive training with musculoskeletal misalignments/imbalances, both are a recipe for problems.

In my opinion, it is the practice of trying/needing to constantly get stronger that most of the problems come from.

With cals/BW exercises, it would seem a more common practice for people to simply achieve a certain number of reps and be OK with staying at that level, ie. 50 push-ups. Another limiting factor with high-rep BW stuff becomes a lack of workout time to continually add more & more reps.

With weight training, you hardly ever see anyone who gets to a certain weight lifted and says, "that's fine, I'll stay at that, I don't need to add weight to the bar, I'll stay at this weight for the rest of my life if possible". Adding weight to the bar is normal, if not expected.

I think it is mostly a mentality difference. It's all about how one uses the tool.
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Old 11-16-2008, 09:02 AM   #136
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Eventually there comes a set point at which your weight and strength will stay unless you take above average steps to correct. Whether it is those steps beyond that create more damage than good is a guesstimate.

What is shown is that eating less will help you live longer....so if your training still reflects eating less then you probably get the benefits...it's when your training requires more and more calories to sustain performance, recovery or mass that you may start depleting your own internal resources as you age.
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Old 12-25-2008, 07:12 AM   #137
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I'll take this opportunity to resurrect this thread on Christmas day AND make my first post. This is a terrific thread and very near to my heart. I am a 40 year old father and husband. I work shifts and many weekends. I played tennis for a division II college nearly 20 years ago. My competitive days are over. Right now I train specifically to extend and enhance my life and quality thereof. Any competition is strictly with myself.
I have really enjoyed reading this thread. I would love to see more links to the specific studies cited. What I have found is that moderation is the key to most things. My workouts have gotten shorter (generally 45 minutes or less) and more intense. I used to be a cyclist (after tennis) and then I tried my hand at triathlon. Now the thought of LSD makes my nauseas. I do thousands of burpees (not in one day of course), kettlebell work, sledge hammer swings, weighted vest runs and lots of deadlifts. Boy I love deadlifts...
I really need to learn more about diet. I am intrigued with the IF program and would like to dabble in paleo and zone type things as well. But as some of you with families may know it can be hard to radically change your diet plan when it effects others in the family.
I think that intense sensible resistance training is the key to long term health. I am leaning towards low rep stuff for the most part (except for burpees and sledgehammer swings and things like that). For example I am learning single leg squats, and working on one arm pushups and pullups. In my mind low reps are the key to developing max strength without the risk of connective tissue/joint problems. I am also not in the least concerned with "getting big". My days of impressing anyone are long gone. I would actually like to get about 20 pounds smaller while gaining strength.
Well, that's about it. Thanks for letting me play...
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Old 12-25-2008, 05:53 PM   #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Ohm View Post
I'll take this opportunity to resurrect this thread on Christmas day AND make my first post. This is a terrific thread and very near to my heart. I am a 40 year old father and husband. I work shifts and many weekends. I played tennis for a division II college nearly 20 years ago. My competitive days are over. Right now I train specifically to extend and enhance my life and quality thereof. Any competition is strictly with myself.
I have really enjoyed reading this thread. I would love to see more links to the specific studies cited. What I have found is that moderation is the key to most things. My workouts have gotten shorter (generally 45 minutes or less) and more intense. I used to be a cyclist (after tennis) and then I tried my hand at triathlon. Now the thought of LSD makes my nauseas. I do thousands of burpees (not in one day of course), kettlebell work, sledge hammer swings, weighted vest runs and lots of deadlifts. Boy I love deadlifts...
I really need to learn more about diet. I am intrigued with the IF program and would like to dabble in paleo and zone type things as well. But as some of you with families may know it can be hard to radically change your diet plan when it effects others in the family.
I think that intense sensible resistance training is the key to long term health. I am leaning towards low rep stuff for the most part (except for burpees and sledgehammer swings and things like that). For example I am learning single leg squats, and working on one arm pushups and pullups. In my mind low reps are the key to developing max strength without the risk of connective tissue/joint problems. I am also not in the least concerned with "getting big". My days of impressing anyone are long gone. I would actually like to get about 20 pounds smaller while gaining strength.
Well, that's about it. Thanks for letting me play...
Gary

I find myself in the same situation as you. I am 40 and am a recent reformed endurance junkie. I threw in the towel on Ironman training this summer. My body was just not feeling good. Lots of aches and pains, lots of fatigue. It just did not feel healthy any more. Plus I was really missing the strength training. I am trying most of the things you are as well. Love my new C2 rower. I am going a bit different direction though with higher reps instead. Had to make that adjustment on deadlifts (which I love also) due to back pain and it is working out very well. Trying the same approach with push ups and kettlebells. Just trying to rehab some old injuries and put my body back together.

Mike
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Old 12-26-2008, 08:48 AM   #139
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this was and continues to be my favorite thread....glad someone has got it going again....not sure if I posted these before but some interesting food for thought:

Interesting thought when it comes to the metabolism....faster is not better...from a longevity aspect
Quote:
Longer-lived Rodents Have Lower Levels Of Thyroid Hormone

The thyroid may play an important role in longevity, with longer-lived rodents showing significantly lower levels of a thyroid hormone that speeds metabolism, a new study has found. The study further strengthens the theory that the faster an animal's metabolism, the shorter its life, and vice versa, said Mario Pinto, the study's lead author. The thyroid releases hormones that regulate metabolic rate.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...1010022316.htm

and it's better to have strength than endurance fibers as you age
Quote:
To assess the age-related loss of muscle mass and to determine the mechanisms behind this aging atrophy, the muscle structure and fiber type composition have been estimated, using invasive and noninvasive techniques. Limb muscles from older men and women are 25-35% smaller and have significantly more fat and connective tissue than limb muscles from younger individuals. Comparisons of muscle biopsies from younger and older individuals reveal that type 2 (fast-twitch) fibers are smaller in the old, while the size of type 1 (slow-twitch) fibers is much less affected. Studies of whole muscle cross sections also show a significantly smaller number of muscle fibers, a significantly lower relative type 2 fiber area, and a significant increase in fiber type grouping with increasing age. These results indicate a gradual decrease in size/volume with advancing age, accompanied by a replacement by fat and connective tissue. This aging atrophy seems to be due to a reduction in both number and size of muscle fibers, mainly of type 2, and is to some extent caused by a slowly progressive neurogenic process.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7493202
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Old 12-26-2008, 09:41 AM   #140
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"Fast"(-er than it should be) metabolism = early death. Sad but true.

Exactly why stimulants "age" people so fast.
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