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Old 05-14-2007, 12:31 PM   #41
Robb Wolf
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LOL! Thanks Alan!
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Old 05-14-2007, 03:05 PM   #42
R. Alan Hester
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[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robb Wolf View Post
Here is another interesting piece to this whole thing. Intensity of exercise appears to be the most important element of preventing age related performance decline. Here is a nice look at this by Clarence Bass:
http://www.cbass.com/Intensity.htm

This is looking at the differences in performance drop-off between sprinters and endurance athletes. Clarence also mentions the longer careers of athletes like throwers, likely do the the frequent recruitment of the largest motor neurons which appears to prevent the death of these motor neurons.
I think his article makes sense. From an anecdotal perspective, this holds true. My father and his army buddies, for example, used to bench, squat, row and do pull-ups and finish with wind sprints 3x a week. After 26 years of army life, all of them are still well-muscled and strong as an ox. Some of his coworkers who were endurance nuts, however, are all frail and feeling their age and service injuries. Another example is my father-in-law. He has lifted weights (compound movements) as well as done gpp as part of his job for the last 37 years and he is a strong 60 year old dude with 8 percent BF (think getting old is for sissies poster).



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This may just be rehashing the power bias stuff but...how much mixed modal work should one do to optimize this health/longevity bias? I'd argue for some, but certainly not all. I'd argue for some max strength work for the major movement planes, some sprint work, various intensities and distances, some ballistics like jumping, throwing, hitting and kicking...i think Ross Enamait calls these "power combos"...2-4 movements then a significant rest before the next combo. From there just generally being active and having fun.
Good points. I wish I could add something, but I agree with the above. I am slowly bringing my wife into the health/longevity path, because she just retired from being an NBA dancer, so her perfomance needs have ended. Currently, she lifts weights twice a week hitting the major movement planes over the two workouts, does yoga twice a week, one day of sprints or sled drags, and one day of mix-modal stuff. All of the above is done over 4 random days with three days of rest.


I have some questions here:
1) On a low-carb, paleo diet how long should one rest between “power combo” movements? If they are governed by phosphate system and allow the maximal effort of 1 to 8 seconds, then how quickly should one resume?
2) Sprints of varying intensities: Because these are driven by the Lactate (glycolitic) system if kept below 180 seconds, then how often can these be performed for a paleo dieter who eschews fruit? What would be the proper work/rest interval for a Health/longevity bias person.
3) Should one focus on intervals that improve power, speed, and explosiveness, which are influenced by very hard intervals (98-99% of Max HR) of short duration (30 to 60 seconds) with long recovery periods (1:5 ratio).

Finally, how should one evaluate progress on a health/longevity plan? Strength gains? Flexibility? Blood work? A performance bias seems obvious because you are training to perform a specific task, but someone attempting to live on a H/L path has no task to perform, other than being playful, happy, and healthy.

More to come.

Alan

Last edited by R. Alan Hester : 05-14-2007 at 03:27 PM. Reason: added
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Old 05-15-2007, 10:38 AM   #43
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[quote=R. Alan Hester;11684][quote]

I think his article makes sense. From an anecdotal perspective, this holds true. My father and his army buddies, for example, used to bench, squat, row and do pull-ups and finish with wind sprints 3x a week. After 26 years of army life, all of them are still well-muscled and strong as an ox. Some of his coworkers who were endurance nuts, however, are all frail and feeling their age and service injuries. Another example is my father-in-law. He has lifted weights (compound movements) as well as done gpp as part of his job for the last 37 years and he is a strong 60 year old dude with 8 percent BF (think getting old is for sissies poster).





Good points. I wish I could add something, but I agree with the above. I am slowly bringing my wife into the health/longevity path, because she just retired from being an NBA dancer, so her perfomance needs have ended. Currently, she lifts weights twice a week hitting the major movement planes over the two workouts, does yoga twice a week, one day of sprints or sled drags, and one day of mix-modal stuff. All of the above is done over 4 random days with three days of rest.


I have some questions here:
1) On a low-carb, paleo diet how long should one rest between “power combo” movements? If they are governed by phosphate system and allow the maximal effort of 1 to 8 seconds, then how quickly should one resume?

One way this might be approached is: 3-4 left hooks, footwork for 3-10 seconds, 3-4 right hooks, foot work, 2-3 thai kicks right, footwork, 2-3 thai kicks left footwork, grab the bag and perform 4-6 skip knees foot work...

This is for almost pure power development. One will get a mild conditioning effect but each interval is short enough to only tax the ATP/CP pathway and then one shifts to another movement entirely thus allowing for quite a bit of recovery for each specific movement. Various plyometric drills and medicine ball drills lend themselves to this approach also.
2) Sprints of varying intensities: Because these are driven by the Lactate (glycolytic) system if kept below 180 seconds, then how often can these be performed for a paleo dieter who eschews fruit? What would be the proper work/rest interval for a Health/longevity bias person.
Tough to tell. Are you relying purely on hepatic glucose control-ie. gluconeogenesis? How much protein is being consumed? Any medium density veggies like squash and onions? One may only need one session like this per week to maintain "good" VO2 max. So perhaps one lactate intensive sprint session and occasionally one ATP/CP session? The power combos mentioned above might sub for this nicely.

something nice about switching modalities here is the hormonal response is not blunted if the body is not acclimated by frequent exposure.

3) Should one focus on intervals that improve power, speed, and explosiveness, which are influenced by very hard intervals (98-99% of Max HR) of short duration (30 to 60 seconds) with long recovery periods (1:5 ratio).

I just think a mix of intervals and modalities is the key. Occasionally something like tabatas, occasionally something like 400m runs with 4 min rest between efforts...everything in-between.

Finally, how should one evaluate progress on a health/longevity plan? Strength gains? Flexibility? Blood work? A performance bias seems obvious because you are training to perform a specific task, but someone attempting to live on a H/L path has no task to perform, other than being playful, happy, and healthy.

I think maintaining performance and body comp are two main indicators. Blood work that tracks insulin levels, inflammatory status and androgen levels makes sense.

From the purely longevity perspective we want a balance of these elements:
1-maintaining our current cell population. Improvements in hormone status can improve DNA repair enzymes and the removal of cellular detritus such as lipofuscion...this will keep our cells alive longer. We want to avoid burning our cells through too many divisions as we will reach the hayflack limit (about 50 cell divisions) and will have little or no telomeres on our DNA...cell death follows.
2-While we are trying to maintain healthy cell lines we also want to encourage the apoptosis of abnormal cells (cancer). Ketosis and intermittent fasting appear to be very powerful in this regard.
3-The cells that DO die need to be replaced. We have a pool of stem cells that can replace them but the stem cells can be depleted in a hyper-fed, hypr-insulinemic state. This is a proposed mechanism of many neurodegenerative diseases. Solution? Low insulin levels, ketosis and intermittent fasting to increase things like brain derived neurotrophic factor (BDNF).

Robb
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Old 05-15-2007, 11:38 AM   #44
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Good stuff.

I can see where this is going, and I like it. I'm going to have to read it a few more times to get it assimilated before I can comment more in depth.

Robb: My thinking regarding the short term effects of an NE response is probably, upon review, incomplete, due to the effects long term.
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Old 05-15-2007, 01:43 PM   #45
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[quote=R. Alan Hester;11684]
Quote:
Good points. I wish I could add something, but I agree with the above. I am slowly bringing my wife into the health/longevity path, because she just retired from being an NBA dancer, so her perfomance needs have ended.
How long have you been waiting to throw that in a post......

All great posts above....I do of course try to keep it all simple and to the basics....so for exercise, it's about the quality and intensity....not the quantity (aka long drawn out aerobic style workouts). I think the harder the stimulus (in a short timeframe...as too much goes in the other direction) to the body, the greater adaption (aka sprints, heavy weights). True Health I define as the rate of cellular repair is greater than the rate of destruction, while maximize cellular detoxification and waste removal. So do as much as you can to promote repair, detoxification and remove as many stressors, cellular destroyers and toxins from your life.
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Old 05-15-2007, 03:31 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike ODonnell;11787

[QUOTE
How long have you been waiting to throw that in a post......
Touché, MOD!
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Old 05-15-2007, 08:24 PM   #47
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One thing we should do is look at examples of guys that have stayed healthy and fit into old age and find what they have in common. Interestingly, there are a lot of superficial variations in diet and exercise.

For example, Art DeVany has his system -- randomly scheduled intense lifting, lots of walking, paleo diet, and picking up chicks -- and it's obviously worked well for him. Jack LaLanne is going strong in his 90s, and he eats a vegetarian diet and exercises two hours every day, almost the opposite of what DeVany recommends. Clarence Bass is similar in some ways to DeVany, but has his own little peculiarities.

Despite the differences, we can still find a lot of common ground between these approaches.

First, consistency. DeVany, LaLanne, and Bass all became interested in fitness as young men and stayed with it for their whole lives. We all know that it's easier to maintain than to gain, so building a good base while you're young and then maintaining as much of it as possible as you age is a very good strategy. Of course, people starting at an older age can still make good progress, but if you're young, you want to take advantage of what you have now and train for the long term.

Second, body composition and maintaining lean mass. This argues for some kind of resistance training as a regular part of your program.

Third, a diet of natural foods, with no sugars or processed products. Every health and longevity star I've heard of follows this rule, regardless of the differences between their diets.

Basically, I'm not sure there's a Master Plan to guarantee a long and active life, but there are general principles that have proven successful. The trick is finding an implementation of the principles that you can follow for decades.
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Old 05-16-2007, 05:40 AM   #48
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Hey guys,

Great information/discussion going on in this thread. Please keep it coming as I am sure this is something that must be of interest to all. Also more links etc to supplementary reading would be appreciated.

Mark
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Old 05-16-2007, 06:34 AM   #49
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Daniel-
Good stuff. Clarence Bass had another piece on a guy, Roy Hilligan. Vegetarian...and complete bad-ass. Consistency of training, clean diets...I was going to say not over achievers on the athletic front but LaLane kinda throws a wrench in that!

These are some good generalities but I'm just curious if decreasing glycolytic flux, intermittent fasting and some other approaches add to this? Here are some photos of people aging well...Hilligan photo included:
http://www.legendaryfitness.com/PicsofMonth.htm
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Old 05-16-2007, 08:38 PM   #50
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Thanks, Robb.

I know you've written about the positive effects that IF and Power Bias training have on the body's various hormones. I'm not an expert on this, but from reading the internets I understand that endocrine system derangement is a major cause of age-related problems and poor health: low testosterone, insulin resistance, etc. If that's the case, programs that manipulate your hormonal profile would be very valuable from a longevity standpoint.

I recall reading one article that predicted youth-extension programs would be the next major trend in health and fitness. Baby boomers will be willing to spend a lot of money to keep themselves from looking and feeling old.
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