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Old 03-15-2010, 01:00 PM   #1
Bo Schmidt
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Default Starting sprinting

Hello everyone,
Some time ago I posted this thread http://cathletics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5020 about 100m and 200m sprint.
My friend and I decided to follow the 14-day cycle as follows (thanks Scott Kustes):

1 - Speed
2 - Heavy lifting
3 - Short Metcon
4 - Rest
5 - Plyometrics
6 - Short Metcon
7 - Rest
8 - Speed-Endurance
9 - Heavy Lifting
10 - Short Metcon
11 - Rest
12 - Tempo
13 - Heavy Lifting
14 - Rest

The "Short Metcons" are being replaced by speed and speed endurance work.

We have been focusing on strength during the winter and thus haven't been running for 6 months and thus or cardiovascular system is crap. We tried 200m sprints with 4 min rest in between today and stopped after 2 sprints. We got sick. Any idea how to start easily but build up fast to do the drills Scott Kustes is talking about in his article "Speed-Training for the Non-Track Athlete"?

Is the above 14-day template still the optimal template for track athletes?

My friend and I have previously been in pretty good cardiovascular shape (3000m Cooper test), so how long do you think it would take?

-Bo
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Old 03-17-2010, 06:15 AM   #2
Scott Kustes
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How fast were you doing the 200m sprints? How does that compare to your best 200m sprint?

Gotta remember...as I mentioned in the article, I don't even know if those templates are optimal for CFers trying to incorporate sprinting. They were just some samples for people to play with. I'd guess 10 days of hard running and lifting and only 4 days of rest might be a bit much, but not sure of your age or recovery ability. I'd guess you should start with less and increase if you are recovering well rather than running yourself into the ground right at the start.
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Old 03-17-2010, 01:15 PM   #3
Bo Schmidt
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Thanks for replying, Scott.

First let me say this: We are NOT crossfitters trying to mix sprinting into our training. We're going all in for 100m and 200m sprint.

The first of our 200m sprints was 25 sec. As my speed endurance is bad, I was naturally gassed at the end (~150m) of the 200m sprint. I'm estimating 11-11.5s on the 100m. This was without track shoes or start blocks. The 2nd 200m sprint was 30 sec and this was with exactly 4:00 min recovery in between. Again the 2nd half was all about surviving and reaching the finish line.

I'm 17 years old and he's 18 years old. We both eat and sleep relatively well. I've started eating grains since I stopped crossfitting (did CF for a year) but I'm still eating 1.5 grams of protein per pound of BW. I'm getting 8+ hours of sleep every night and sometimes I sneak in a nap in the afternoon.

Further questions:
1. We've been doing Jim Wendler's 5/3/1 strength program during the winter and we have seen incredible results. Any idea how to incorporate 5/3/1 into the above template? The first week there's only 1 weightlifting day. The 2nd week we would do DL and Press on the first weightlifting day and squat and bench on the 2nd weightlifting day.
Another personal goal I've had lately is achieving a one-arm chin-up (and pull-up), any idea how to add this goal into the above template? My record right now is 5 reps with 20 kg added.

2. In the previous post you advocated we started out building our speed base and then layering the speed endurance on top, and not the other way around. Should we add some sprinting days each week (1-2) while strength training until our bodies have adjusted to the increased workload (3-4 weeks) and then shift to the above template? Again, please keep in mind that we are not crossfitters trying to incorporate sprinting, but we're sprinters trying to get the best times possible.

Thank you very much for helping us out!

-Bo
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Old 03-17-2010, 04:59 PM   #4
Scott Kustes
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Glad to hear that!

You're running too fast to do short-rest repeats. The goal isn't 100% on each one...you won't survive, as you found out. Try going more like 75% with 4 minutes rest...that means you need to know how fast you can run a 200m (time each other with a stopwatch and add .5 to account for the timer's reaction time). Now divide that by .75 and do repeats at that time. Start with low volume, add reps as it gets easier.

I use Wendler too...two days of lifting currently, deadlift one day, press the other. I don't do the squats because they make me too sore and tired to sprint effectively.

Need to know how far you are from an actual competition, particularly the competition you want to peak for, to know how you should be structuring your current training. The further away you are, the more you should be working on speed and strength. The closer you are, the more you should be working on speed-endurance.

I prefer more of a 4-week mesocycle with 1-week microcycles just because it's easier to plan at the month and week levels. You don't need to do everything every week.

How to work in your 1-arm chin is up to you. Sounds like you have a boatload of goals going on at once.
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Old 03-17-2010, 10:36 PM   #5
Blair Lowe
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Interesting note about the squats, Scott. I can't remember far back enough how sprinting on squat days was like.
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Old 06-10-2010, 11:35 AM   #6
Alex Paino
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Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2
Talking similar situation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bo Schmidt View Post
Thanks for replying, Scott.

First let me say this: We are NOT crossfitters trying to mix sprinting into our training. We're going all in for 100m and 200m sprint.

The first of our 200m sprints was 25 sec. As my speed endurance is bad, I was naturally gassed at the end (~150m) of the 200m sprint. I'm estimating 11-11.5s on the 100m. This was without track shoes or start blocks. The 2nd 200m sprint was 30 sec and this was with exactly 4:00 min recovery in between. Again the 2nd half was all about surviving and reaching the finish line.

I'm 17 years old and he's 18 years old. We both eat and sleep relatively well. I've started eating grains since I stopped crossfitting (did CF for a year) but I'm still eating 1.5 grams of protein per pound of BW. I'm getting 8+ hours of sleep every night and sometimes I sneak in a nap in the afternoon.

Further questions:
1. We've been doing Jim Wendler's 5/3/1 strength program during the winter and we have seen incredible results. Any idea how to incorporate 5/3/1 into the above template? The first week there's only 1 weightlifting day. The 2nd week we would do DL and Press on the first weightlifting day and squat and bench on the 2nd weightlifting day.
Another personal goal I've had lately is achieving a one-arm chin-up (and pull-up), any idea how to add this goal into the above template? My record right now is 5 reps with 20 kg added.

2. In the previous post you advocated we started out building our speed base and then layering the speed endurance on top, and not the other way around. Should we add some sprinting days each week (1-2) while strength training until our bodies have adjusted to the increased workload (3-4 weeks) and then shift to the above template? Again, please keep in mind that we are not crossfitters trying to incorporate sprinting, but we're sprinters trying to get the best times possible.

Thank you very much for helping us out!

-Bo
Bo- I know its been a while since your post... but I recently have found myself in a similar situation. I am doing speed training for my football program, so a little different as I am not training for a race but still trying to maximize speed and explosiveness. ive been taking a pre-workout supplement that is designed for this kind of training and I have seen some pretty good results. after about a week of taking it I noticed I could maintain a fairly intense workout for a much longer period of time... while also maintaining good form and technique(which seems to go out the door as an intensive workout progresses). check it out and see if its the right thing for you too... called fast fuel, by a company RSp nutrition. dont know much about em but they got a couple guys in tthe nfl on it.
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