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Old 04-24-2010, 12:59 PM   #11
Brian DeGennaro
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I don't know, never asked him about anything but lifting. However, his one lifter, Rob, plays football (redshirts for UNLV) and does lifting. From what I know he runs a fast 40 and nearly a 40" vertical. He does football training during the day and then lifts later in the evening, but John adjusts everything according to what he did during football.

His lifters do do pulls from time to time, along with other exercises from time to time, but he likes to stick with the meat and potatoes (snatch, CJ, squats, variations).
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Old 04-24-2010, 01:35 PM   #12
Dave Van Skike
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Originally Posted by Brian DeGennaro View Post
I don't know, never asked him about anything but lifting. However, his one lifter, Rob, plays football (redshirts for UNLV) and does lifting. From what I know he runs a fast 40 and nearly a 40" vertical. He does football training during the day and then lifts later in the evening, but John adjusts everything according to what he did during football.

His lifters do do pulls from time to time, along with other exercises from time to time, but he likes to stick with the meat and potatoes (snatch, CJ, squats, variations).
too bad. he said some stuff i thought might be hyperbole but would be interesting to see how far he carries it. maybe he's onto something and everyone in SM/PL should train like Siders.
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Old 04-24-2010, 02:38 PM   #13
Donald Lee
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too bad. he said some stuff i thought might be hyperbole but would be interesting to see how far he carries it. maybe he's onto something and everyone in SM/PL should train like Siders.
He talks a lot about applying his methods to Powerlifting, not sure about Strongman, in that BB.com thread.
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Old 04-24-2010, 07:59 PM   #14
Geoffrey Thompson
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For the lifts John doesn't believe at stopping, allowing up to 6 misses but usually around 3 in training; if he sees some fire in their eyes he lets them go at it as many times as they want. Squats, he either doesn't let them miss more than 1 attempt if any. And daily maxes vary. Some days it can be a new PR, other days it's 50kg.

From what I know, Broz trains this way and has trained this way for the last 20 years, and is now a 40 year old Master lifter. If I recall he said somewhere his bests were 162 and 190 for the snatch and CJ respectively.
I saw him say that he took up with Krastev when he was 29, which would be a little over a decade.
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Old 04-24-2010, 08:47 PM   #15
Brian DeGennaro
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My bad then, I guess he has been lifting a total of 20 years, not using this system specifically for that time.
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Old 04-24-2010, 09:59 PM   #16
Gavin Harrison
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What did he say about applying this approach to other strength sports?
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Originally Posted by Broz
Powerlifter- the same approach I take now and do it with the 3 lifts, but the bench would only be 3x/week. smaller muscles need a bit more time.

Strongman - I would train just like we do except drop the snatches and add power clean with push presses. 2/wk I would do grip work- no more than that. 2x/mo I would do the actual strongman exercises until getting close to a meet when I would focus more on volume and not on maximum lifts for the aerobic benefit needed for those meets.
That thread has a ton of info on the way he trains and recommends others train. I read it through, front to back, it's insane. Unfortunately, Iron Addict made personal attacks on Broz and it kinda threw Broz back into hiding from the internet and just doing his thing in his gym

Other points from the thread:

1. He doesn't believe in overtraining, only undertraining. Overtraining is part of the adaptation towards being awesomely strong. He refers to what others call overtraining as the "Dark Time" when your strength goes down and you feel like shit. To him, there's light at the end of the tunnel, and when you start making PRs in a completely fatigued state, you know you're getting somewhere.

2. He expects his gym to be a highly competitive gym on the world/olympic level within the next 2-3 years.

3. Back squats are stupid easy, and if you need to do more work without taxing yourself to much, do back squats.

4. Back Squats are generally better than Front Squats. Front squats limiting factor is always the upper back, never the legs.

5. However, front squats carry over to the clean, yay. BS carry over to the snatch more.

6. Squatting heavy should be as easy and natural as walking.

7. Something will hurt. Always. And you'll never know what it will be until you wake up in the morning.

8. If you're tired, train. If you hurt, train. If you have free time, train. If you're injured, go to the ER. If you're not injured, train.

9. Work up to a max, back of 10-20kg and do 2's or 3's to get to 30-50 reps total for the workout. Percents are BS.

10. More volume = more adaptation. Train more.

11. He's made over 50 attempts in a single workout before hitting a new PR.

12. There will never be a day when you walk in the gym and can't lift the bar. If it's one of those days, lift the bar... a lot.

13. Every time you train that's a +. Every day you don't train, that's a -.

14. Assistance work is over rated, unless you're bench pressing, then balancing the shoulder is important. Also, push press is better than press.

15. His lifters only do light presses, and only if their elbows hurt. Elbows don't hurt, no more pressing.

16. Start out by training 3 times a week, maxing every workout. Add another day, until you're up to 7, as soon as possible. Then work up to maxing every workout. Then add 2x/day.

17. Assistance work is overrated, unless you're training the upper body, particularly with bench presses. In this case, do rows, pull ups, etc to stretch the front of your body and provide balance.

18. Don't bench more than 3x/week. Limit deadlifting, the lower back recovers poorly.

19. If you get pinned by a snatch, you get laughed out of the gym. Or chained to the squat rack for a month.

20. Once you start training this way, you're almost never sore.

I kind of like the idea behind the training, tons of practice, not being sore, auto-regulation, etc. The limiting factor it would seem is time. If you're not AMAZINGLY dedicated (WL not your top priority), you're not going to be able to spend 2-3 hours in a gym 2x/day. The ideas of training economy, abbreviated training, etc, are completely thrown out in this approach. The thread responses by Broz are very good and interesting, imo.
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Old 04-25-2010, 10:01 AM   #17
Dave Van Skike
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gavin Harrison View Post
That thread has a ton of info on the way he trains and recommends others train. I read it through, front to back, it's insane. Unfortunately, Iron Addict made personal attacks on Broz and it kinda threw Broz back into hiding from the internet and just doing his thing in his gym

Other points from the thread:

1. He doesn't believe in overtraining, only undertraining. Overtraining is part of the adaptation towards being awesomely strong. He refers to what others call overtraining as the "Dark Time" when your strength goes down and you feel like shit. To him, there's light at the end of the tunnel, and when you start making PRs in a completely fatigued state, you know you're getting somewhere.

2. He expects his gym to be a highly competitive gym on the world/olympic level within the next 2-3 years.

3. Back squats are stupid easy, and if you need to do more work without taxing yourself to much, do back squats.

4. Back Squats are generally better than Front Squats. Front squats limiting factor is always the upper back, never the legs.

5. However, front squats carry over to the clean, yay. BS carry over to the snatch more.

6. Squatting heavy should be as easy and natural as walking.

7. Something will hurt. Always. And you'll never know what it will be until you wake up in the morning.

8. If you're tired, train. If you hurt, train. If you have free time, train. If you're injured, go to the ER. If you're not injured, train.

9. Work up to a max, back of 10-20kg and do 2's or 3's to get to 30-50 reps total for the workout. Percents are BS.

10. More volume = more adaptation. Train more.

11. He's made over 50 attempts in a single workout before hitting a new PR.

12. There will never be a day when you walk in the gym and can't lift the bar. If it's one of those days, lift the bar... a lot.

13. Every time you train that's a +. Every day you don't train, that's a -.

14. Assistance work is over rated, unless you're bench pressing, then balancing the shoulder is important. Also, push press is better than press.

15. His lifters only do light presses, and only if their elbows hurt. Elbows don't hurt, no more pressing.

16. Start out by training 3 times a week, maxing every workout. Add another day, until you're up to 7, as soon as possible. Then work up to maxing every workout. Then add 2x/day.

17. Assistance work is overrated, unless you're training the upper body, particularly with bench presses. In this case, do rows, pull ups, etc to stretch the front of your body and provide balance.

18. Don't bench more than 3x/week. Limit deadlifting, the lower back recovers poorly.

19. If you get pinned by a snatch, you get laughed out of the gym. Or chained to the squat rack for a month.

20. Once you start training this way, you're almost never sore.

I kind of like the idea behind the training, tons of practice, not being sore, auto-regulation, etc. The limiting factor it would seem is time. If you're not AMAZINGLY dedicated (WL not your top priority), you're not going to be able to spend 2-3 hours in a gym 2x/day. The ideas of training economy, abbreviated training, etc, are completely thrown out in this approach. The thread responses by Broz are very good and interesting, imo.
thanks gavin. i think there's a guy over at PB who has talked with Broz as well. Might ping him and see if he comes up with anyhting more nuanced.
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Old 05-03-2010, 04:25 PM   #18
Denver Buchanan
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Link to another good thread, lots of reading.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=122395951
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Old 05-04-2010, 04:33 PM   #19
Emily Mattes
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All I can say is that there can be merits to making a repeated max attempt, especially if your strength outstrips the lift . . . I finally made a 65 snatch last weekend, it took two hours and probably well over 40 attempts as well as lowering the weight and working it back up twice but it happened at the end. Olympic lifting is a long sport that takes a while to master but there are moments to go for broke.
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Old 05-06-2010, 12:20 PM   #20
Arden Cogar Jr.
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All I can say is that there can be merits to making a repeated max attempt, especially if your strength outstrips the lift . . . I finally made a 65 snatch last weekend, it took two hours and probably well over 40 attempts as well as lowering the weight and working it back up twice but it happened at the end. Olympic lifting is a long sport that takes a while to master but there are moments to go for broke.
Wow! Was that Victor approved?

But, seriously, great work.

There is a lot to be said for volume and adaptation. I believe it works best for those that are young and have more time on their hands. I would have loved to train in this fashion when I was in college and high school for that matter. But alas, all I knew at that time came from Muscle and Fitness.

All the best,
Arden
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