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Old 04-25-2010, 02:00 AM   #1
matthew brewster
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Default when to go heavy and when to go long

Hi Folks hope your all well.
Im looking for some help with integrating conditioning with the strength training template laid out in the relative intensity article.
For those who aren't familiar with it, it lays out a strength training programme of percentages laid out over a week.

1 rep max
5x4 75 %
5x3 80%
3x3 85%
5x1 90%

My question with regards to mixing in conditioning workouts is when to go heavy and short and when to go lighter and longer.

Would i be correct in thinking that on light high volume days such as 5x4 @ 80%
im better doing something short and heavy in the 3 - 5 min range ? ie. 5 deadlift 10 burpee 4 rounds.

And on a heavy low volume day such as 5x1 @90% a longer body weight workout such as 15 mins of cindy or a tabata would fit nicely ?

or am i miles away ?

I may well be over thinking this as i do suffer from over analysis a lot of the time but I'm keen to maximise on the time i have in the gym.

many thanks

matt
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Old 04-25-2010, 05:58 AM   #2
Jay Ashman
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first of all your percentages are off with that rep range, you won't be working hard enough at all to get stronger. 90% of 1RM for 5 singles is easy. 75% of 1RM for 4 reps is simple.

2nd of all you are oversimplifying it with the conditioning. It is a lot more that just "heavy day, short metcon; light day, long metcon". It depends on the lift, the CNS hit you took, how you feel, what you are doing the next day/week, etc.

I have went into the gym with a plan and changed it entirely after I did my lift based upon how I felt after it.

I wouldn't call your problem overthinking, you just have to plan it out, and work on that strength program, those percentages with that rep range aren't going to cut it.
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Old 04-25-2010, 09:22 AM   #3
matthew brewster
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Hi Jay
thankyou for your reply.
My knowledge of strength and conditioning is very limited i was great at working out single body part splits years ago lol but this is still all pretty new to me.
I saw the layout of that programme and it seemed to mix things up nicely

in simple terms how would i be best having one lift a day followed by conditioning ? would i be better going with a linear progression on the core lifts followed by the crossfit wod scaled to my abilities?

The only problem i have with that is on CF there are many exercises that i cant do ie muscle ups, ghds etc and too be honest dont see the point in doing.

or is something like the max effort black box the way to go, one day of lifts at a heavy weight followed by a day dedicated to conditioning ?

many thanks
matt
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Old 04-25-2010, 09:33 AM   #4
Steven Low
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What are your lift numbers, weight, and height?

You may not need percentages and may be able to just use linear progression if you're not well into intermediate level of strength...
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Old 04-25-2010, 10:09 AM   #5
matthew brewster
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Hi steven thank you for replying

My stats are (im trying to convert this to imperial for you so may be a little off)

height 5 11
weight 16 stone - 98kg but very fat at the moment i think i should be closer to 90 where i was 12 months ago. diet has been taken in hand.

lifts as 1 rep max
back squat - 264 lbs - 120 kg
front squat - 225 ibs - 100kg
ohs 132 - 60kg as a 3 rep
bench - 225 - 100kg
deadlift - 330 - 150kg
c&j 154 - 70kg
clean 165 - 75 kg as a 2 rep
snatch 110 - 50kg
military press 160 -72.5
push press 198 - 90kg
real pull ups 6 on a good day
dips weighted 20kg for 5
dips unweighted 16

these are all recent numbers and despite not really training for 4 months i didnt seem to loose what little strength i had

previously i was training at a uk affiliate who also used to programme lifts as a percentage however their knowledge far out ways mine, but alas i can only drop in there once a month or so now.

My main concern at the moment is good conditioning although i require good strength and strength endurance for work.

i think basically i want to be a badass mofo lol

Last edited by matthew brewster : 04-25-2010 at 10:17 AM. Reason: forgot a couple of numbers
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Old 04-25-2010, 02:37 PM   #6
Jay Ashman
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you don't need percentages yet... hit the linear hard, you have room to grow.
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Old 04-25-2010, 04:13 PM   #7
Mark Fenner
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matthew brewster View Post
1 rep max
5x4 75 %
5x3 80%
3x3 85%
5x1 90%

My question with regards to mixing in conditioning workouts is when to go heavy and short and when to go lighter and longer.
To answer your stated question, I think your set-rep scheme is enough to support whatever you feel like for conditioning. If you feel good, go heavy. If you feel bad, go longer. You are already spreading out your fatigue throughout the week.

From my perspective, those are good strength-skill practice values. Jay has an alternate perspective below, but high frequency approaches (you are talking about lifting fives days a week, right?) require not going to failure or even to serious strain. With these approaches you are doing motor learning, not pushing hypertrophy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Ashman View Post
first of all your percentages are off with that rep range, you won't be working hard enough at all to get stronger. 90% of 1RM for 5 singles is easy. 75% of 1RM for 4 reps is simple.
Did you notice that he is going five days a week? He might be better off doing linear progression five days a week (ala Power to the People 1 set of 5 every day), but you might agree that in the context of five session per week lifting, he would not want to do, say, 5 sets of 3 @ 90% the day after a more traditional recommendation at 85% (3-5 sets of 5 or something).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Low View Post
What are your lift numbers, weight, and height?
These are all great questions. I'd also like to know what your real age is, your training age (years of serious training without more than a month off), and if you've ever done anything that would have made you strong without weights (heavy labor, wrestling, etc.). I think all these additional questions drastically affect the Practical Programming "novice, beginner, intermediate" programming ideas and the tolerance of the trainees for different programming schemes.

Oh, where was the relative intensity article you mentioned?

Best,
Mark
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Old 04-25-2010, 04:41 PM   #8
Jay Ashman
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Quote:
Did you notice that he is going five days a week? He might be better off doing linear progression five days a week (ala Power to the People 1 set of 5 every day), but you might agree that in the context of five session per week lifting, he would not want to do, say, 5 sets of 3 @ 90% the day after a more traditional recommendation at 85% (3-5 sets of 5 or something).
good catch, I didn't even notice that until now.

yea a 5 day a week program like that is odd for sure. I would recommend linear progression for him for sure, he isn't strong enough to be messing with percentages yet, unless he is doing 5/3/1
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Old 04-25-2010, 04:58 PM   #9
Júlíus G. Magnússon
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Another vote for linear progression.

Something like:

Mon:
Squat 3x5
Bench Press 3x5
Pull-ups

Tue:
Deadlift 1x5
Metcon

Wed:
Rest

Thu:
Squat 3x5
Press 3x5
Metcon

Fri:
Pull-ups
Metcon (or just a pull-up centric metcon)

Sat:
Power Cleans
Metcon

Sun:
Rest
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Old 04-25-2010, 08:58 PM   #10
Steven Low
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Something like what Julius wrote up would be good
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