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Old 02-21-2007, 09:07 PM   #1
Steve Shafley
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Default MSG debunked


Nice piece by Dr. Mike Eades
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Old 02-21-2007, 10:17 PM   #2
Allison Barns
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This kind of thinking boils my blood almost as bad as MSG does!! You wanna give me a 2-day bout of back spasms? Give me MSG! Let me find out you did it deliberately to see what would happen and......I won't go there.

Yeah, some people may just think that they react to something, but I, myself, have had too many bad reactions, too much illness, and too much of loved ones getting really F*&^ing ill to speak or think kindly of the "it's all in your head" and "a little bit won't hurt" thinking. For some of us, a little bit WILL hurt!

Besides - I'm pretty darn sure MSG ain't paleo.

Last edited by Allison Barns; 02-21-2007 at 11:48 PM. Reason: Punctuation; compelling need to be a smarta**
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Old 02-21-2007, 10:21 PM   #3
kevin mckay
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That shit consistently gives me one hell of a headache.
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Old 02-22-2007, 06:18 AM   #4
Steve Shafley
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It's very hard to sacrifice your sacred cows.
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Old 02-22-2007, 06:48 AM   #5
Allen Yeh
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Interesting article, I like that bit at the end on how they started adding garlic and onion to their friends food. That makes me think of the way my wife and I add garlic to just about everything even though the middle kid swears that he hates it and it makes him ill. It only makes him ill if he knows it's in there.

MSG is in a lot of prepared asian foods I know I ate a TON of them growing up *shrugs* I wonder....
"And for crying out loud. Don't go into the pain cave. I can't stress this enough. Your Totem Animal won't be in there to help you. You'll be on your own. The Pain Cave is for cowards.
Pain is your companion, don't go hide from it."
-Kelly Starrett
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Old 02-22-2007, 08:02 AM   #6
Scott Kustes
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I err on the side of caution. It's probably not as bad as some say nor as good as the others say. Other than my 2-3 times yearly to tear a whole in a Chinese buffet, I avoid it. Eat real foods and you won't encounter MSG anyway.

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Old 02-22-2007, 09:23 AM   #7
Robb Wolf
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I have not read the article yet...will chime back when I do. I remember when I lived in Long Beach, CA the Cambodian family I lived with had bags of this white granular salt type stuff that they added to virtually all meals...turned out to be MSG.
"Survival will be neither to the strongest of the species, nor to the most intelligent, but to those most adaptable to change."
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Old 02-22-2007, 10:57 AM   #8
Yael Grauer
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I guess it's like aspartame--some people claim it's an excitotoxin and some people say it's harmless... I thought I read somewhere that there was some correlation between MSG and neurodegenerative disease though.
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Old 02-22-2007, 01:50 PM   #9
Robb Wolf
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This is all pretty interesting stuff for me. If you read through the below citations I'd like to point out a few things:
1-Excitotoxins can come from a variety of sources...even shellfish has levels of glutamine that can cause neuronal damage in susceptible populations!2-glutamine/glutamate is a neurotransmitter AND an excitotoxin! Like I've said before the poison is in the dose. Normal, natrual processes can release or produce levels of glutamate that can damage neurons.
3-Aspartame MAY be en excitotoxin, but I still think it's tough to argue that a regular soda is better than a diet soda. Sugar is BAD news.

4-All of the studies exploring CRAN and intermittent fasting show a marked resistance to neuronal injury from excitotoxins...is the effect we see from thing like shellfish and MSG and artifact of EATING TOO MUCH TOO OFTEN? Insulin resistance increases the severity of excitotoxins, how do co-founders such as this play into these scenarios.

5-in the case of celiac Glutamic acid (glutamine/glutamate) is frequently derived from gluten. This may explain some of the associations folks with celiac make with MSG. Perhaps some of this is not immagined...perhaps not.

1: Neurotoxicology. 1994 Fall;15(3):535-44. Links
Excitotoxins in foods.
Department of Psychiatry, Washington University School of Medicine, St. Louis, Missouri 63110.
Evidence is reviewed pertaining to excitatory neurotoxins (excitotoxins) encountered in human food supply. The most frequently encountered food excitotoxin is glutamate (Glu) which is commercially added to many foods despite evidence that it can freely penetrate certain brain regions and rapidly destroy neurons by hyperactivating the NMDA subtype of Glu receptor. Hypersensitivity of NMDA receptors during development makes the immature nervous system especially sensitive to Glu excitotoxicity. On the other hand, elderly consumers are particularly sensitive to domoic acid, a powerful excitotoxic Glu analog that activates both NMDA and non-NMDA receptors. A high content of domoic acid in shell fish caused a recent food poisoning incident that killed some elderly victims and caused brain damage and memory impairment in others. Neurolathyrism is a crippling neurodegenerative condition associated with ingestion of a legume that naturally contains BOAA, an excitotoxic Glu analog that hyperactivates non-NMDA receptors. Thus, the human food supply is a source of excitotoxins that can damage the brain by one type of mechanism to which immature consumers are hypervulnerable, or by other mechanisms to which adult and elderly consumers are peculiarly sensitive.
PMID: 7854587 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
1: Neurobehav Toxicol Teratol. 1984 Nov-Dec;6(6):455-62. Links
Excitotoxic food additives--relevance of animal studies to human safety.
Evidence is reviewed supporting the view that excitotoxic food additives pose a significant hazard to the developing nervous system of young children. The following points are stressed: (1) although blood-brain barriers protect most central neurons from excitotoxins, certain brain regions lack such protection (a characteristic common to all vertebrate species); (2) regardless of species, it requires only a transient increase in blood excitotoxin levels for neurons in unprotected brain regions to be "silently" destroyed; (3) humans may be at particularly high risk for this kind of brain damage, since ingestion of a given amount of excitotoxin causes much higher blood excitotoxin levels in humans than in other species; (4) in addition to the heightened risk on a species basis, risk may be further increased for certain consumer sub-populations due to youth, disease or genetic factors; (5) despite these reasons for maintaining a wide margin of safety in the use of excitotoxins in foods, no safety margin is currently being observed, i.e., a comparative evaluation of animal (extensive) and human (limited) data supports the conclusion that excitotoxins, as used in foods today, may produce blood elevations high enough to cause damage to the nervous system of young children, damage which is not detectable at the time of occurrence but which may give rise to subtle disturbances in neuroendocrine function in adolescence and/or adulthood.
PMID: 6152304 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
1: Mol Cell Biochem. 2003 Jan;243(1-2):139-45. Links
Prolonged glutamate excitotoxicity: effects on mitochondrial antioxidants and antioxidant enzymes.
Neurochemistry and Neuroendocrinology Laboratory, Department of Biotechnology, Guru Nanak Dev University, Amritsar, India.
Glutamate, a major excitatory amino acid neurotransmitter is also an endogenous excitotoxin. The present study examined the prolonged and delayed effects of glutamate excitotoxicity on mitochondrial lipid peroxidation and antioxidant parameters in different brain regions, namely, cerebral hemisphere, cerebellum, brain stem and diencephalon. Wistar rats (male) were exposed to monosodium glutamate (MSG) (4 mg x g body wt(-1), i.p.) for 6 consecutive days and sacrificed on 30th and 45th day after last MSG dose. MSG treatment markedly decreased the mitochondrial manganese superoxide-dismutase (Mn-SOD), catalase and reduced glutathione (GSH) content, and increased the lipid peroxidation (LPx), uric acid and glutathione peroxidase (GPx) activity. These results indicate that oxidative stress produced by glutamate in vulnerable brain regions may persist for longer periods and mitochondrial function impairment is an important mechanism of excitatory amino acid mediated neurotoxicity in chronic neurodegeneration.
PMID: 12619899 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
"Survival will be neither to the strongest of the species, nor to the most intelligent, but to those most adaptable to change."
C. Darwin

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Old 02-22-2007, 02:35 PM   #10
josh everett
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Robb you've got it all backwards...what were you doing living with a cambodian family? Your supposed to adopt a 14 year old cambodian girl and have her live with you! Man i thought you were a genius. I need to re-think all the advice I've been following of yours.
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