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Old 08-24-2010, 12:21 PM   #41
Jae Chung
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Originally Posted by Chad Cilli View Post
Well, from what people have told me, I'm surprised I lasted as long as I did. My first year doing Crossfit, I followed the CF main page and then did the NavySEALs.com workout everyday. Before that, I spent about 6 months following the Gym Jones workouts that he listed on the calendar, and I did all of the workouts listed. Somedays this meant up to 4 workouts a day,
WTF!!!

I didn't read all the responses in this thread carefully, so I dunno exactly what your plans are, but dude. That is some craziness.

My non-expert reaction to this is,


1. eat more, sleep more
2. do some serious rehab and prehab and get healthy, without focusing on "making progress" on anything
3. and then start easing back into things as Robb suggested,
4. and for God's sake, hire a coach.
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Old 08-24-2010, 12:57 PM   #42
Garrett Smith
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In any case, I've been seriously trying to plan my return to training in light of recent issues.
No offense intended here...you are the last person who should be planning your own training without at the very least, hard and fast guidelines as to the parameters to train around...basically, what to watch for to know if you are screwing up or doing it right. This is what I give to people in this situation. I don't know what Robb gave you previously, however, you seem to have the "overexerciser" in you creep back every time when you are in charge of your own stuff.
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I don't mean to be overly simplistic, but it seems like if the intensity of multi-modality workouts like CF seems to be the issue in overtraining, why not train modalities individually with less intensity? Am I missing the point?
You are not missing the point. This is exactly the point. Modulate volume, frequency, intensity (as a % of max), watch rest and recovery as markers of improvement. Rinse, repeat. Err on the side of TOO MUCH RECOVERY and NOT ENOUGH INTENSITY until well out of this phase of your life.
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Old 08-24-2010, 09:23 PM   #43
Ryan Secor
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Originally Posted by Chad Cilli View Post
Somedays this meant up to 4 workouts a day
Bad, bad decision. - unless you're Mark Bell.

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Originally Posted by Chad Cilli View Post
In any case, I've been seriously trying to plan my return to training in light of recent issues.
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Originally Posted by Steven Low View Post
Seriously though you need to take off for like 4-5 months like I did.
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Originally Posted by Garrett Smith View Post
Err on the side of TOO MUCH RECOVERY and NOT ENOUGH INTENSITY until well out of this phase of your life.
I agree with Steven and Dr G about this. Based on everything you've been saying on the severity of this, I would probably treat this like an injury and REST. Like Robb and many others have pointed out there's a time to train hard and a time to back off in training... and you missed that back off portion for so long your body is essentially injured as a result. Get extra sleep - seriously 9-10+ hours a night if you can manage it. Eat how Robb and the others have been suggesting (quality + a lot!). IF you workout and don't have someone designing your workouts for you, you probably want to limit how much you tax your body right now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad Cilli View Post
Would it be unwise to try to focus on single modalities per workout? For instance, Monday work on front levers and planches, Tuesday have a moderate run (maybe about a 5K), and then do some weight training on Wednesday (cleans, deadlifts, squats, etc.)? I don't mean to be overly simplistic, but it seems like if the intensity of multi-modality workouts like CF seems to be the issue in overtraining, why not train modalities individually with less intensity? Am I missing the point?
If your goal is to be proficient over multiple modalities then that plan sounds a lot smarter. It all depends on your goals though... When you do come back fully healed (probably going to be a long process), remember to train hard but smart and recover even harder. You also mentioned you lead a pretty stressful life, etc - I would also suggest training around that stressful lifestyle. For example, I typically work a 16-18 hour day when all is said and done (I also will have work an overnight shift for 6+ months) and I used to work out before work almost every single day. That was just too much for me though - I had worry about working, doing basic living stuff (i.e. eating, relationships, etc), sleeping, AND then getting my workout in. I knocked that off and started training around my schedule. I'm much happier and actually getting better results working out on my days off and trying to make my work days as painless as possible. All that being said - you're getting some great advice on here from some extremely knowledgeable and outstanding people. I hope you take it, learn something good from this whole experience, RECOVER, and come out on the other end as a better person and athlete. Good luck.
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Old 08-24-2010, 10:10 PM   #44
Jarod Barker
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First off, thank you to everyone for your input on this. I never thought I'd get such a response, and I'm truly thankful for all of you taking the time to share your knowledge.

Thanks Ryan, I can really appreciate the long hours. When we get a contract, it's not unusual for me to put in consecutive 16 hour days for a week. Then trying to fit a workout in on those days just turns into a futile battle. Thankfully, it's not always the case that I have to work that much, but it does happen with enough frequency that I do believe it has had an overall impact on my overtraining.

I know I've done alot of the wrong things in the past as far as excessively training thinking that more volume would equal more progress, and I have made changes, but apparently not enough changes. My current issue though is that since January of this year, I've just never gotten back to "normal." I got sick in January and didn't train the whole month, I might have got 3 workouts in in February before I got sick again. Then in March, I was diagnosed with a stress fracture, and that's when I had all the bloodwork with the cortisol levels. I took time off for both the fracture and trying to get my cortisol to come down, only to break my foot in June running a grand total of 2 miles a week. The doc said 4-6 weeks to heal, and here I am at 8 weeks still unable to use it fully without substantial taping.

I'm just trying to figure out if I'm doing something wrong which is why I've basically lost January through August, or if I just dug myself a hole that deep in the first place. And if I have dug myself a hole, how can I get out quickly? And quite frankly, I'm kind of freaked out that the docs I've seen about my bloodwork have suggested AndroGel, testosterone shots, cortisone shots, even anabolic steroids. When the endocrinologist told me he thought I needed to start TRT, I felt like someone had told me I had diabetes and needed insulin for the rest of my life. I just hope I haven't screwed my body up so much that I've done permanent damage to my nervous system or anything.

In any case, Jae and Garrett, I know I need a coach, but I swear to you, I have contacted people and looked all over the place for a good coach, I cannot find one in Pittsburgh, PA. This is why I'm seriously considering relocating to Chico if my girlfriend gets into grad school there. I've tried remote coaching as well, but I think I need a coach who can actually observe me and tell me when I'm going too hard. I really am a coachable athlete, I do exactly as I'm told, but that can also be dangerous because I've had bad coaches who over programmed with too much weight too often, and I just kept trying to perform till I got injured.

Additionally, I'm thinking about quitting my job. It's not the career I want for my life, and I think that it is just complicating my life with the travel and hours, so in the interest of moving towards my real goals, I think I need to reevaluate my job situation.
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Old 08-25-2010, 06:18 AM   #45
Garrett Smith
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Chad,
Whenever we get the chance to talk, I have my guidelines for exercise with rules for when someone is doing too much.
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Old 08-25-2010, 07:13 AM   #46
Jarod Barker
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Thanks Garrett, I'm looking forward to it!
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Old 08-26-2010, 08:58 AM   #47
Jarod Barker
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Hey guys, I thought I'd update after talking with Dr. G.

If anyone else is having problems with overtraining, I highly recommend taking advantage of his knowledge. Talking with him was infinitely more beneficial than the hours I've spent with my endocrinologist and the multitude of tests I've had done. We went over my blood work, and he knew more about it than my endocrinologist. Whereas I had my doctors here telling me I need to start TRT and that my cholesterol was too high and my blood sugar was pre-diabetic, Dr. G was able to explain each issue and put it into context. I think it is very clear that my cortisol level was elevated from overtraining, but as Dr. G pointed out, it has caused sort of a cascade of other related effects.

We also went over my training, and I've realized that my willingness and desire to surpass my coaches' expectations is actually a detriment to me because I'm just throwing myself into things 100% with disregard for own health. Dr. G helped me set up a plan to focus on recovery while still maintaining strength and a level of endurance, but keeping the workload below a level where it would tax my nervous system.

It gave me a new perspective that was far more specific to my lifestyle and training than any of the doctors I've been working with, and it was a relief to understand that many of my blood markers are simply skewed as a result of overtraining and not some pathological disease. Hopefully I'll be feeling better shortly, but for now I'm really looking forward to the next few months.

And Dr. G, I took a tablespoon of creamed honey last night before bed, and I fell asleep so fast, I don't even remember getting into bed.
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Old 08-26-2010, 11:08 AM   #48
Garrett Smith
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Gentlemen, we can rebuild him. We have the technology.

Your previously high cortisol, plus your positive reaction to the honey pre-bed (which would tend to indicate low cortisol at night), means we really need to get the salivary Adrenal Stress Index done to look at your circadian cortisol rhythms.
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Old 08-27-2010, 09:31 AM   #49
Jarod Barker
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Hahaha, dammit I wish I could get some bionic muscles! Then I could just drink cans of WD40 instead of all this paleo junk.

I came across something semi-interesting. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7591395

It states that recurrent muscle injury causes hypogonadism. Now, in the study they used tamoxifen to cure this, which if I understand it correctly is an estrogen blocker.

So, this of course got me thinking, Poliquin and biosig modulation. If your T level was low, then your estrogen would be comparatively high which if I understand correctly, your hamstrings would have a higher fat storage. I'm not trained in biosig so I'm definitely not an expert, but would an AI like Novedex XT create a similar benefit because you'd be blocking the conversion of testosterone into estrogen hence lowering your estrogen levels and balancing out hormone levels?

In any case, I guess the real question I'm asking is, is hypogonadism as a result of overtraining/recurrent injury a reversible condition or are you permanently damaged from the stress on your body?
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Old 08-27-2010, 10:08 AM   #50
Ben Moskowitz
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In any case, I guess the real question I'm asking is, is hypogonadism as a result of overtraining/recurrent injury a reversible condition or are you permanently damaged from the stress on your body?
either way, don't worry about it! ok bad joke. I've just read through the thread and I really wish you all the best in your recovery.
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