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Old 11-02-2010, 12:14 PM   #61
Rick Deckart
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for chris sake, you don't need curls you need to do pullups in an intensity you can handle

next time you do a band assisted pullup, try the following:

do partial pullups from an elbow angle of 60 to 120 degree, as many as you can, make a note to yourself.

then wait 10 minutes

do partial pullups from an elbow angle of 90 to 170 degree, as many as you can, make a note to yourself.

then wait 10 minutes

do partial pullups from an elbow angle of 0 to 90 degree, as many as you can, make a note to yourself.

that should give you a pretty detailed account where your weakness is
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Old 11-02-2010, 12:31 PM   #62
Allen Yeh
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Sheesh what is with all the curl hate?

Not saying everyone needs a day dedicated to bi's and tri's.....but direct arm work should IMO be a part of training.
"And for crying out loud. Don't go into the pain cave. I can't stress this enough. Your Totem Animal won't be in there to help you. You'll be on your own. The Pain Cave is for cowards.
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Old 11-02-2010, 12:39 PM   #63
Gary Ohm
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I think it's pretty plain that her weakness is at the fully extended range of motion. If you're not strong enough to even get off the block from here then you need to do something else.
If you don't have bands, then do curls. No one has even remotely stated that curls are necessary to doing pullups. But if nothing else is working, then perhaps that is something to try. If you don't have bands, then strategic curl work can fill in the gap.
In looking back over the past seven pages, there is not much that Yael has not tried.
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Old 11-02-2010, 12:47 PM   #64
Rick Deckart
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she hasn't tried my program, and yes curls have their place, but in my opinion it is better to know - via a test - then to assume what the weak link is...
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Old 11-02-2010, 12:48 PM   #65
Rick Deckart
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and curls will help not one jota I predict - elbow has nothing to do with it!!!
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Old 11-02-2010, 02:27 PM   #66
Grissim Connery
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i'll make one last suggestion and then i'm out. any physiology guy should correct me if i'm way off.

when i've tried one arm pullup work i think i feel the same feeling as you => that is you can offer resistance to the pull of gravity throughout the pullup except at the deadhang, in which case you just feel like you're hanging and you can't even start the pull. these were a goal of mine a while ago, and i gave up out of frustration.

over the past summer, i've done a good deal of cross work (as much as i can given how much farther i need to go). about 2 weeks ago a i hopped up on the bar with one arm just for fun, and the hold felt different. i still can't do a OAP, but i could start to pull out of the whole a bit. i tried to kip and got a littel bit up, but it's still a ways to go.

i actually think that the issue could be pec related. when you're in a dead hang, you're typically more under the bar than the latter portion of the pullup, when the bar starts to come in front of you. that angle may require the pec to pull you out of the hole and into the beginning of the pullup.

if you think of dumbell pullovers, you start to feel it pull your chest as your arms extend beyond your head.

training wise, i'm not really sure the best way to attack this if it really is the issue. it does seem more likely to me than the bicep idea though. i imagine maybe it's just a matter of getting the shoulder in the right place before the lat can do the dirty work.

maybe steven, donald, or gant can chime in if i really have any basis to my thoughts.
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Old 11-02-2010, 04:15 PM   #67
Donald Lee
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It sound like you're suggesting that it may be a triceps long head issue. Could be.

I think Peter's idea is probably the best option though.

Maybe some work on the lat pulldown machine also may help. Heavy, high rep work in the trouble ROM or isometric holds at the problem joint angles.

Edit: There are a lot of muscles that have minor functions in the pullup, so yeah...I'm not sure how helpful something like curls would be with a problem like Yael's specifically.
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Old 11-03-2010, 04:23 AM   #68
James Evans
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Everyone but Peter & Donald is getting this massively complicated.

Main point but Yael keeps having to reiterate this: She can't do a full ROM pull up. Most programmes out there assume you can do 2 or 3, maybe one. She can't do one.

Why is this becoming an argument about armwork? Come on guys, if the sticking point is to move Yael's bodyweight through the initial range of motion from locked out elbows how much weight do you think she needs to curl to be able to replicate that? 2/3 of her bodyweight?

We were all functional then we all became bros again. Nothing wrong with armwork but there are other bigger things to do first.

Yael - Get that band gizmo you want. I would focus on a chin (supinated) grip just so you get the bis a bit more involved. Do what Peter suggests through as long a ROM as you can & don't worry about his plyo push up psychosis. See where you are at the end of his cycle.


Lat Pulldown - Donald not convinced by the carryover both from experience and anecdotal evidence but some people say YES!. Working the initial pull heavy maybe worth a try though. As much as you can for 2-3 inches to get that initial flexion.

Pendlay Row - I think I said earlier that DVS endorsed this for pull up prowess. You need to shift some weight here.

Curlz - If it's an elbow issue why would it not be biceps causing a problem? What flexes the elbow? The muscles used in flexion are: 1) the biceps brachii; 2) the brachioradialis; 3) the brachialis; and 4) the pronator teres. The biceps are the strongest of the flexors and are at there strongest with the hands in a supine position. Use chins as I have said and do some curlz at the end of training, if you feel like it and with a supine grip. No hammer stuff.

Just as a subnote, of all the women I coach who can do do full ROM pull ups only one naturally favours a pronated grip over a supinated grip. She basically can do pull ups but not chins. Everyone else is the other way round. Hammer those chins and then move to pull ups.
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Old 11-03-2010, 11:00 AM   #69
Yael Grauer
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Okay, I will buy my band gizmo, perhaps do some lat pulldowns (focus on the heavy more than the high rep) and isometric holds--though not sure how to replicate the coming-out-of-dead hang motion on a pulldown. Then if I'm bored I will try to curl 105.
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Old 11-03-2010, 01:24 PM   #70
Donald Lee
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I think as long as you're not heaving or leaning back, the lat pulldown can be helpful.
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