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Old 09-25-2010, 04:42 AM   #1
Mark Hammer
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Default Ideas for my Squat problems, Please If possible

First up i am sorry to ask you guys this but i am a little concerned.

For the love of anything i can not get my Squat more vertical. Meaning the bar seems to travel very far forward sometimes almost past my toes. I am weak in the core at heavier weights and the arse rises before the shoulders, working on that one but, even when i drop to 40kg i get almost the same bar path. What ever the problem is it also effects the front Squat too. I have tried to get the knees more forward but i just lose balance.

I have read a lot of stuff here, even have Greg's 2nd edition and wrote a review, but for some reason i can not seem to get more vertical.
Here is a video. apologies for the dark nature of the vid. It is the best i could do for the moment. Oh in case you are wondering i was settling in at the bottom to try and get in better, more vertical position. Believe me i was trying hard too but i get almost no movement.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9v-Xhbbnw9E

Is this all in my imagination am i am just stuck like this for my body type? Or is it as bad as it looks to me, even if there is no pain even at 160kg.
To add a last bit i am not sure it is flexibility. I can put my feet on a wall, as Kelly Starrett does, and i can get my hip almost to the wall. As for adductors they could be better but by no means bad. As for hamstrings and flexors i am about 4cm off doing full front/back splits on both legs.

I am really lost.

Any help much appreciated
Kind Regards
Mark H
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Old 09-25-2010, 02:30 PM   #2
Robert Callahan
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Ankle mobility?
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Old 09-25-2010, 02:46 PM   #3
Derek Weaver
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There are other more knowledgeable people on this board, but I think I see a couple things.

One is it looks like you're breaking at the knee before the hip. I'm guessing this is a light weight, and such is not causing the problem with your hips rising above your shoulders. Honestly, I don't think that's really possible at a heavy weight. Or a lighter weight. It'd be a close stance good morning with an exaggerated ROM where you didn't throw out your back. I'd be surprised if that's happening.

Regardless, I guess you'd need to work on core stability, maybe improve mobility although it seems as though you're likely fine on this front from your original post, keep the weights low and progress slowly as you improve.

Also, read this. http://www.dieselcrew.com/how-to-squat
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Old 09-25-2010, 05:22 PM   #4
Mark Hammer
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Thanks for the reply guys. Much appreciated.

I don't think it is ankle mobility. I am pretty flexible. I have tried getting the hips in closer to the feet, thus making the angle of the feet and lower leg more acute, but, i cannot find balance in that position and it is worse than my normal squat.
Even so, i still work on ankle mobility almost every day it may end up helping somwhere down the line.

Derek, That was a light weight. Only 40kg. I was using it to try and get in better position and the bar alone is too light to feel anything. The midline is weak but you wont notice it until i get up to 120-130kg (I am just leading with my arse there but i certainly don't get close to good morning style). I am working on getting the midline stronger.
It is not so much the midline i am worried about. If you look at the bar path and where it is in relation to my heels, especially at the bottom of the squat, it is almost infront of the ball of the foot. Even at 40kg.
I have always read the more upright the torso in the Oly squats the better and the bar should be over the front of the heels. I am just wondering why i can't seem to do it even with good flexibility. I am also wondering if it may just be body mechanics and i am just this way?
I have tried a lot of positioning work; feet wider, closer, pushing knees out more, knees more forward and none of it seems to make a difference. Am i missing something?

Will make sure breaking hips first.
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Old 09-25-2010, 06:52 PM   #5
Kevin Shaughnessy
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Maybe try lifting your toes which will force you on your heels?
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Old 09-25-2010, 07:47 PM   #6
Derek Weaver
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On another viewing of your video, it looked like you did okay on the second and third reps regarding breaking at the hips first.

I did see a little rounding in the lower back at the bottom of the rep. You may be fairly flexible, but you still may not have the necessary mobility to get to the depth you're at in the video. I'm likely nitpicking and wrong here though.

I wish someone who knows things would jump in here.

Gant, Dave, Shaf, Arden? Greg?
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Last edited by Derek Weaver : 09-25-2010 at 09:29 PM. Reason: forgot...
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Old 09-25-2010, 08:14 PM   #7
Mark Hammer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek Weaver View Post
On another viewing of your video, it looked like you did okay on the second and third reps regarding breaking at the hips first.

I did see a little rounding in the lower back at the bottom of the rep. You may be fairly flexible, but you still may not have the necessary mobility to get to the depth you're at in the video.
I have noticed the little bit of rounding, too. You may infact be right, though. Even if i am flexible i could always be a little more. I do mobility stuff every day so I will only get more flexible. If flexibility is the problem it will eventually sort itself out as long as i keep trying and doing the mobility stuff.
I have been busting a gut to get the mobility up there maybe i just need to be a little more patient.

I have a wrist injury at the moment and it looks like a month or more off clean, and anything heavier than a piece dow over head. So i am Mobility and squat everything right now. More to work on i guess and see what happens. Keep plugging away on form and mobility.

Replies and help is much appreciated.

Mark
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Old 09-25-2010, 09:28 PM   #8
Derek Weaver
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Here's the thing... You may not be built to get that deep to begin with. Flexibility and mobility go hand in hand, but it could be that your problem isn't with flexibility in terms of tissue length, but with motion, in that your body isn't happy going through that ROM.

Just food for thought. Try cutting the depth just shy of where your back rounds and see how the rep goes.
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And if you don't think kettleball squat cleans are difficult, I say, step up to the med-ball
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Old 09-26-2010, 07:44 AM   #9
Jarod Barker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Callahan View Post
Ankle mobility?
I think you're right, perhaps just the first area to work on. A few of my athletes were bending themselves in half even just squatting a broomstick when they first came to the gym, started building their ankle flexibility and slowly their bottom position improved.
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Old 09-26-2010, 06:08 PM   #10
Mark Hammer
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Default Ankle Mobility

Hi and thanks again to all that replied.

While i wont dismiss ankle mobility as part of the blame, i honestly think i am more than capable of getting the ROM through the ankles i need. That does not mean I will not try to get even better range of motion in that area. In-fact i work my ankles at work every day (I have to stand behind a counter and i am regularly stretching the the lower leg and ankles).

Today I spent another hour and a half trying different positions (believe it or not i actually tried raising my heels even more with a plank of wood. It almost looked like i was wearing high heels, ha ha) and I actually think i may have found the problem. I think it may be that the toes were not pointing out far enough thus the knees not following the correct path, much wider than i first thought, to get the hips in between the legs. The adductors also seem a bit tight here, which i have mentioned in the first post. I just never thought that it may be the actual problem. I am going to have to give Greg's book credit here as i went through the squat section about 3 times last night trying to get ideas.

While i don't know yet, i think i may be on a winner with this. I did have video but by the time i figured it out i was too tired and and other parts of the body started getting too weak to make a good lift. I will recover and try again tomorrow and work on getting the addutors even more flexible to get the wider angle. It did feel good though and it really felt for the first time that the hips were getting very close to being in between the feet and it also made the front squat much more vertical and i felt the bar sitting much more stable on the shoulders.

What is really funny is i have managed to get 5 people into a pretty much perfect form squat, yet i can't seem to fix myself. Fingers crossed for tomorrow.

Thanks again to all that replied.
Mark H
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