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Old 02-28-2007, 12:09 PM   #31
Jamila Bey
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I've stopped. But that's because I lost 22 pounds in a month, and I did it in December/January and it was good to make it thru all the holiday food debauchery without indulging too much.

I'm doing the sensible zone-ish meals thing with a shake a day now.

Hubby and I are starting our shakes only regime again tomorrow, March 1, and we're doing it until April 1.

I freely admit that I indulge in one real meal per week because I'd commit husband-cide if he wouldn't cook for me. Every time I guzzle a liquid feast, I think to myself, "6 days 'till my crabcake and salad with dressing!" And it's enough to get me thru.

However, I do find that willpower is not enough during my cycle. I turn into a raging witch if I don't get something sweet. Lara bars "cashew cookie" and "cherry pie" seem to work. If I try to ignore the craving, I wind up shoveling the worst chocolate and Doritos crap into myself.
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Old 02-28-2007, 05:32 PM   #32
Robb Wolf
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Really interesting thread. I think the radical change is really warranted at times. I think the guys at CrossFit Vancouver are recommending a liquid fast for some of their really heavy clients and getting fantastic results. It's hard but the results happen quickly and are highly motivational.

For maintenance I think its tough to beat meat, leaves and
berries in an intermittent fasting format. Good food...but not too much of it.
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Old 02-28-2007, 05:43 PM   #33
Greg Everett
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yeah, patty in vancouver hooked up with cari-lee stevens, who sells/supports this liquid fast diet thing. i met her last year when i was up there doing a lifting seminar (and a last minute 'nutrition seminar' on fat loss while i was drinking several beers). she is cool, but i'm somewhat skeptical of any diet that requires you purchase specific products sold by the folks who recommend the diet... once we start manufacturing PM food, i'll change my tune on that one, but for now, it stands firm!

shit, i could make you lose 15 lbs in 9 days too--probably even more. you could drink nothing but a can or two of ensure and do it. doesn't mean it's healthy. add some methamphetamine and 3 packs of cigarettes (non-filtered lucky strikes or hand-rolled drum are the biscuits of choice) a day, and you'll be good to go.

excuse me, i have a business plan to write...
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Old 02-28-2007, 05:48 PM   #34
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shit, i could make you lose 15 lbs in 9 days too--probably even more. you could drink nothing but a can or two of ensure and do it. doesn't mean it's healthy. add some methamphetamine and 3 packs of cigarettes (non-filtered lucky strikes or hand-rolled drum are the biscuits of choice) a day, and you'll be good to go.

excuse me, i have a business plan to write...
Aka...the supermodel diet....hence why they smoke all day.

and you should know by now...a real good intellgent program makes no money....a crazy outside the box theory with no proof and crazy advertising about insane fat loss is what makes millions......there's no money in selling healthy solutions....quick and easy is the big money maker.
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Old 02-28-2007, 06:07 PM   #35
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you know, the radical change deal is so tempting when you have clients who just kind of lollygag along... except the reason they're lollygagging is because THEY WON'T FUCKING DO WHAT YOU TELL THEM TO DO.

although the simplicity is the key there. but really, how complicated is 'eat a piece of meat, some veggies and a few nuts'? remarkably so, apparently.

also, what about the raging diabetics whose quack doctors decide (after months of perfect blood glucose) to introduce a new med at a huge dose (say avandamet, 500mg) and nearly stick said diabetic in a coma, then take her off the meds and have her BG all over the damn map so you can't do anything of consequence in the gym without flooding an NG tube with orange juice to keep her from dying afterward...

so anyway, any experience with type II diabetics and this kind of approach?
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Old 02-28-2007, 06:34 PM   #36
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except the reason they're lollygagging is because THEY WON'T FUCKING DO WHAT YOU TELL THEM TO DO.
Welcome to my world....

Problem #2 is the "Great I lost all this weight so now back to eating my cake and everything else...." and then BAMM.....they load it right back on.

I like the simplicity as in they have no excuse while at work to follow something so simple...and then have a lifestyle plan they can ease into and keep going....

No experience with diabetics....as any fasting is usually not recommended...but then again...doctors just blurt out random things sometimes...

Today's episode "My doctor told me to lose the weight...but also said I shouldnt eat alot of protein as it is bad for my kidneys".....are you serious???? So my reply was...."Call your doctor and ask him specifically how much protein is too much...as in grams..."...Sweat that one doc..."Ummm....Ahhhhh....."
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Old 02-28-2007, 08:10 PM   #37
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I did the v-diet twice (28 days long) . Once as prescribed and once a year ago where i made a whole foods version of it. Meaning I used the same number of grams of carbs/protein/fat as the shake diet but used whole foods instead: Chicken, cans of Tj's Salmon, eggs, almonds instead of the flax (with extra fish oil tablets to get 6/3 ration to 4/1).

I lost over 20 pounds both times. I made the whole foods version just as regimented as the v-diet. There was no variation and everything was measured. However I would tell people to do the v-diet as prescribed if you want the easier solution. Its less initial estimating to do and making the shakes is pretty easy. Lot of meat to eat if you go the whole foods route.

No idea if there is a health cost to such an extreme diet but I can tell you that the blood work results were impressive. On the shake version (which is when i made sure I got a pre and post diet lab test to satisfy my curiosity) my LDL dropped 75 points in 28 days. I genetically have high Cho and to have it drop that much made me a happy camper.
I am curios what the whole food version looked like. I know very little about this diet what do the macro nutrient ratios/ total cals look like?
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Old 02-28-2007, 08:15 PM   #38
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Rob,

meat, leaves and
berries in an intermittent fasting format

I like that, but is there a paleo quick loss solution?

If I wanted to drop 20 as fast as possible eating paleo what would that look like?
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Old 03-01-2007, 08:19 AM   #39
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Rob,

meat, leaves and
berries in an intermittent fasting format

I like that, but is there a paleo quick loss solution?

If I wanted to drop 20 as fast as possible eating paleo what would that look like?
Hmmm...likely Zone protein level and carbs only in the form of veggies...just a little fat. Clock only about 1200 cals and train pretty hard. You will get lean in a hurry.

Dr. eades feels getting diabetics into ketosis as fast as possible is the way to go. Makes sense really...if you want to reverse insulin resistance, remove all insulin spiking foods.
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Old 03-01-2007, 09:02 AM   #40
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Yeah...I really think you need to address protein needs first on something like this, and how you train becomes increasingly important. The 1 gram/lb of lean body mass is probably a good prescription, and so would the Zone recommendations.

I do think the IF with PMSF coupled with appropriate post-workout nutrition might be an optimal strategy for a strength athlete looking to maintain muscular mass while dropping weight. Maintaining strength is going to be a balancing act while in a calorie deficit.

Maybe something like this:

Training Days: PMSF style eating + post workout nutrition to replace muscle glycogen and help speed recovery...nothing too extreme, though.

-I say this so you can have some protein and calories before your workouts, which tend to make them better (although I have to confess I've had no problems with higher volume lifting sessions at the tail end of an 18 hour fast)

Off Days: IF, maybe compress all your zone blocks into a 6 hour window.

What'd be tricky is determining optimal types of metcon...I think metcon can break the model in half if it's too intensive, and, in addition, overall training volume for weight work could possibly break this.

If you have a lot of weight to lose, I feel you have more leeway with volume of lifting and of metcon, but if you are going from 12%->7%, this becomes a very different story.
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