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Old 03-01-2007, 09:15 AM   #41
Dave Van Skike
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Rob,

meat, leaves and
berries in an intermittent fasting format

I like that, but is there a paleo quick loss solution?

If I wanted to drop 20 as fast as possible eating paleo what would that look like?
I've got two folks doing a whole food version. Looks a lot like a "diet" to me but they are both gettign great results. I'll query their daily intake and post back. Big upside of going whole food is it transitons to long term eating patterns better.
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Old 03-01-2007, 09:29 AM   #42
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Yeah...I really think you need to address protein needs first on something like this, and how you train becomes increasingly important. The 1 gram/lb of lean body mass is probably a good prescription, and so would the Zone recommendations.

I do think the IF with PMSF coupled with appropriate post-workout nutrition might be an optimal strategy for a strength athlete looking to maintain muscular mass while dropping weight. Maintaining strength is going to be a balancing act while in a calorie deficit.

Maybe something like this:

Training Days: PMSF style eating + post workout nutrition to replace muscle glycogen and help speed recovery...nothing too extreme, though.

-I say this so you can have some protein and calories before your workouts, which tend to make them better (although I have to confess I've had no problems with higher volume lifting sessions at the tail end of an 18 hour fast)

Off Days: IF, maybe compress all your zone blocks into a 6 hour window.

What'd be tricky is determining optimal types of metcon...I think metcon can break the model in half if it's too intensive, and, in addition, overall training volume for weight work could possibly break this.

If you have a lot of weight to lose, I feel you have more leeway with volume of lifting and of metcon, but if you are going from 12%->7%, this becomes a very different story.

At some point I will have to fess up and post my nutrition log.

The protein fasting IF is simialr to something I am currently doing. Keep in mind I had great luck with V-diet and wanted to try IF, with a similar nutrient profile and kcals. If this doesn't yield results in about two weeks I'll switch. So far it's a worthy expirement.


My days looks like this:

Kcals per day. 1700-1900.
All consumed in a 4 hour window. 4:30pm to 8:30pm. Nothing but black coffee and water rest of the day.


Huge salad with nuts, a wee bit of fresh and dried fruit.

two steaks or a stack of 4-5 turkey burgers. 2 eggs

bowl of cottage cheese and protein shake before bed.

In the gym it's 5 strength based workouts a week. basically M/W/Sa
in the morning with a follow up session at noon two days a week. Based on the intermediate program from PP. Squats, cleans, presses, deads and pull-ups in various rep schemes and positions. H/L/M format

I do a little tiny bit of interval work to stay frosty but nothing taxing. Shaf is dead correct on that. too much "cardio", met con or even high volume lifting will drop me like a sack of onions. I do a wee tiny bit of mobilty and conditioning; typically heavy bag work, jump rope and kettlebell circuits, all less than 10 minutes long. Take occasional long walks with weighted vest and ride a bike. I look at these as active rest, not training any specific quality.

Compliance is good. Weight appears to be dropping (not sure, I weight in once a week and it' only day 5) Strenght levels are creeping up...slowly.
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Old 03-01-2007, 10:47 AM   #43
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I do a little tiny bit of interval work to stay frosty but nothing taxing. Shaf is dead correct on that. too much "cardio", met con or even high volume lifting will drop me like a sack of onions.
Even though you are doing the PWO to replenish glycogen stores I imagine you want to keep your reps low (5 or less) to stay within ATP-CP energy systems, and stay away from anything higher reps or that resembles a metcon or HIT work....as that is glycolitic pathway...which you will not have alot of. Hence the "Bonk". Light cardio, or oxidative pathways are where you want to be outside of strength work.
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Old 03-01-2007, 10:59 AM   #44
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For ease of use...do people do the protein powder thing...or has anyone tried a good RTG (ready to go) drink?
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Old 03-01-2007, 11:49 AM   #45
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Even though you are doing the PWO to replenish glycogen stores I imagine you want to keep your reps low (5 or less) to stay within ATP-CP energy systems, and stay away from anything higher reps or that resembles a metcon or HIT work....as that is glycolitic pathway...which you will not have alot of. Hence the "Bonk". Light cardio, or oxidative pathways are where you want to be outside of strength work.


Correction. I do no PWO nutrition. I eat only during the window. regardless of when I train.

Days go like:

AM lift stuff.

Noon sometimes lift stuff, today it's erg., jump rope and stretch. I'll eat at about 5:30 PM today.

I have taken a lot of flak from people who think this is crazy. For me, it's not that far outside of what I normally do. Axly, when I was a bike racer I lived a lot like this. Work duirng day, no food, just coffee, leave work about 4;00, ride either a tempo piece for 40 to 50 miles with hills or interval work for an hour or so with some sprints. Get home about 8:00, drink two beers in the shower and eat until 10 or so. I would typically eat breakfast under that scenario but that's really the only difference. Come the think of it I was leaner then than at any point in my life, positively translucent.
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Old 03-01-2007, 11:52 AM   #46
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For ease of use...do people do the protein powder thing...or has anyone tried a good RTG (ready to go) drink?
The RTG's are a taste catastrophe. The mix and match allows one to mitigate the nasty off flavors. Cocoa poweder, coconut milk, flax seed, even soy protein are really helpful to cut the taste down.
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Old 03-01-2007, 10:10 PM   #47
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"Hmmm...likely Zone protein level and carbs only in the form of veggies...just a little fat. Clock only about 1200 cals and train pretty hard. You will get lean in a hurry."

That sounds cool I will start Monday, how many grams of carbs should I shoot for?
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Old 09-14-2007, 08:39 AM   #48
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Just finished the V-diet last night. Here's a little bit of my experience.

First, I didn't find that it was all that tough. I was never really hungry, never spacey (unless I had put off a shake a couple of extra hours), never had horrible gastro-intestinal pain (I did become very gassey but dialed the flax seed meal back a bit and things improved). I tried to follow the diet to the "t" w/ the exception of my whole food meals when I ate a little more than I should have and had a gin and tonic w/ dinner once. I did use the biotest products for the most part except about halfway through I used some 100A% casein powder for a day or two until my resupply came.

I lifted w/ the basic Starting Strength program and felt good doing it. I usually use a kettlebell GS style workout and so haven't lifted heavy weights in about 5 years. I was able to squat over 400lbs toward the end of the 28 days which is the most I think I've done (I haven't really ever tried to get a max in the last 15 years).

I lost about 16lbs and 3.5" on my waist. Didn't do any of the bloodwork or bf testing so sorry about that. My reason for doing this was that a) I had really fallen off the wagon and needed a disciplined approach to straighten me out b) I coach and there is CONSTANT junk food around, team meals, post game meals, etc & I felt that if I were going to just follow a low carb approach I might get derailed easily.

My advice: If you are a higher % body fat person such as myself (between 20 and 30 is my guess) you'd have just as much success w/ a paleo/low carb/zone/etc approach w/ a 28 day strict eating plan. For lower bf% people, this might be something to try or if you're like me and need a jumpstart and don't trust yourself to make the right decisions.

I'm going to transition into a Fast 5 approach to IF now. I'm going to try and push back my shakes to noon for a while and then see how it goes from there. I'm sure I'll be asking for some advice on how to get through the day w/out eating...
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Old 02-22-2008, 03:53 AM   #49
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Hi Guys,

First time poster, long time lurker blah blah blah. I am going to be starting the V-Diet on monday and I was going to post some before and after pics of my progress (hopefully). Need to get back on track with diet, it has been slowly slipping through my fingers lately and I think this is the kick up the ass I need.

Ian B
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Old 02-22-2008, 05:54 AM   #50
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Hi Guys,

First time poster, long time lurker blah blah blah. I am going to be starting the V-Diet on monday and I was going to post some before and after pics of my progress (hopefully). Need to get back on track with diet, it has been slowly slipping through my fingers lately and I think this is the kick up the ass I need.

Ian B
Welcome Ian, you are starting at a good time, today is day 2 the Velocity Diet for my wife and myself.
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