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Old 12-09-2010, 01:55 PM   #91
Geoffrey Thompson
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Originally Posted by Arien Malec View Post
Which would seem to be the answer to the @F article: yes, short-duration intense work will create a CV adaptation, but just try doing that as your main program.

http://board.crossfit.com/forumdisplay.php?f=12
It's been a while since I clicked through that link. Man, it's a horror show there. Just count the rhabdo cases in the last month. Madness.
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Old 12-09-2010, 02:44 PM   #92
Arien Malec
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Originally Posted by Donald Lee View Post
Read Lyle's series on intervals vs. steady state.
Good stuff. Particularly:

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/tra...ng-part-2.html


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HIIT type stuff does increase VO2 Max, but it doesn't create all the aerobic adaptations necessary for longer events. For example, it doesn't sufficiently increase left ventricular volume because left ventricular volume tops out at intensities of about 65-75% of MHR (I just guessed this percentage b/c I forget the exact percentage). It also doesn't sufficiently increase mitochondrial density. It also doesn't sufficiently increase capillary density. It also doesn't sufficiently hypetrophy the slow twitch fibers. It also doesn't sufficiently upregulate the concentration of aerobic enzymes.
Leaving behind all the @F crap about how metcons rule for all kinds of sports adaptation, for the guy who wants a baseline of health but wants to stay power dominant, what level of GGP is sufficient? Is the lifting tradition of finishers (prowler, sled, sandbag work, KB work) sufficient to preserve CV health while explicitly staying away from the endurance adaptations?
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Old 12-09-2010, 03:36 PM   #93
Andrew Wilson
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Old 12-09-2010, 04:37 PM   #94
Arien Malec
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I think I'll put up my decathlon program on a blog sometime this week.
Gosh, decathlon training as a model for power-based generalist training. Whodathunk?
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Old 12-09-2010, 04:42 PM
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Old 12-09-2010, 07:13 PM   #95
Derek Weaver
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I've seen it on Lyle's site, maybe on this site, and I'm pretty sure I've seen Joel Jamieson all say something to the effect that: the lowest intensity that can be used in order to cause the desired adaptation should be the default.

The biggest problem with people touting intervals over anything else is that they say "train like an athlete". They don't make mention as to whether this is "athlete training" in-season, off season, what part of the off season etc.
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Old 12-09-2010, 07:39 PM   #96
Kevin Perry
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hahahahaha someone would make some much money off CrossFit marketing if a decathlete went into the Games and CRUSHED IT. This is my CrossFit Cobra Commander plot, I'm going to build a team of decathletes to sweep the podium at the Games and take that $1,000,000 purse prize they're bragging out.
Do what you must do, im tired of hearing about @fit eliteness
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Old 12-10-2010, 07:35 AM   #97
Shane Skowron
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hahahahaha someone would make some much money off CrossFit marketing if a decathlete went into the Games and CRUSHED IT. This is my CrossFit Cobra Commander plot, I'm going to build a team of decathletes to sweep the podium at the Games and take that $1,000,000 purse prize they're bragging out.
Yeah but....can they do double-unders????
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Old 12-10-2010, 08:24 AM   #98
Garrett Smith
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It's been a while since I clicked through that link. Man, it's a horror show there. Just count the rhabdo cases in the last month. Madness.
Where will the @F injury ship sail when Mr. Low finally decides to stop helping them all out?

Steven, you're doing an admirable thing over there. Your patience is even greater than mine, and that's saying something.
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Old 12-10-2010, 09:53 AM   #99
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Where will the @F injury ship sail when Mr. Low finally decides to stop helping them all out?

Steven, you're doing an admirable thing over there. Your patience is even greater than mine, and that's saying something.
lol

I visit maybe a 4-5x of times per week.... at least 10-15 new threads every time.
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Old 12-10-2010, 10:00 AM   #100
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100m is primarily ATP-CP and oxidative-independent, meaning the cardiovascular system nor oxygen in the blood stream isn't needed to produce ATP, hence the oxygen deficit. If you just ran 100m, the stopped, and just stood around for 5 minutes, the ATP-CP which was ready before the 100m and wiped out after, would begin to replenish while you're just standing there. However, if you were slow jogging for 3 minutes after the 100m, the ATP-CP being wiped out, a new energy system would kick in dominance to continue to produce ATP for the jog which would be glycolysis.
This is not exactly correct.

Glycolysis turns on maximally above lactate threshold.

Below lac threshold you're using oxidative phosphorylation as the main energy source.

So if you jog for 3 minutes after 100m sprint, glycolysis is turned on somewhat (but not maximally) while mitochondria are replacing the oxygen debt + providing energy for the jog.

------------------------------

The delusion of the energy curves is that each of the contributions of energy are used in that specific order. It's actually almost a reverse order in which they are used.

Aerobic is the prominent resource used during any low intensity activity.

Current ATP stores, PCr, and a bit of glycolysis accounts for some of the lag time between ramping up activity and distribution of oxygen/CO2 to/from the cardiovascular system to the muscles.

Glycolysis is never maximally stimulated unless above lac threshold; thus, the majority of energy contributions below lac threshold are always from aerobic sources (e.g. oxidative phosphorylation in mitochondria).

The energy curves look drastically different for maximal intensity exercise vs. lac threshold vs. walking/slow jogging.

----------------------------

This is also why a lot of Clyde Hart's stuff for 400m utilizes multiple repeats of sub-lac 200m which ramp up intensity building up into the track season. At first you're building primarily aerobic base with them. As the intensity during starts to ramp up during teh season, you still get the aerobic base component + some lac training. Then nearer to major competition you're maintaining the aerobic base + developing the lactate endurance you need to finish strong.

Building up aerobic base (for races longer than 25-30s) especially 400m which is 60/40 anaerobic/aerobic (50/50 for women) is important because aerobic can easily accomodate more adaptation and thus more energy to power running (2 ATP vs 34 ATP). The higher the energy storage in muscles via myoglobin + cardiorespiratory adaptations you don't get as much from as from sprinting alone encourages a broader aerobic base upon which to build a foundation for the more intense lactic training needed to finish off a 400m sprint.

In other words, the greater percentage of your Vo2max that you can go without going above lac threshold, the faster you can run 400m or beyond. Elite endurance athletes can go up around 80-85% VO2max without going above lac threshold.

Thus, why 400m is primarily a combination of 3 types of training:
~Increasing strength and application of through plyometrics
~Increasing maximal sprinting speed through training form and short sprints (0-80m)
~Building aerobic base (off season/preseason) and then adapting into training lac threshold (in season)

This translates to....

1. Increase speed (via sprinting mechanics + strength/plyo).
2. Increase % of Vo2max you can run at without going above lac thresh = increased speed endurance (aerobic base... slower 200m repeats in Hart's coaching)
3. Develop lac threshold tolerance to finish race (supra lac threshold training via usually increased intensity of HIIT -- faster 200m repeats in Hart's coaching)
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Last edited by Steven Low : 12-10-2010 at 10:14 AM.
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