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Old 01-21-2011, 07:59 AM   #491
Grissim Connery
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i don't like running, so i'm gonna de-rail this to sports i like.

BJ penn was historically a great technician but with inadequate conditioning. i know he started doing crossfit a while back, and i think that's where the "fight gone bad" wod came from. does BJ still do crossfit? if not, who's managing his S&C?
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Old 01-21-2011, 08:12 AM   #492
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grissim Connery View Post
i don't like running, so i'm gonna de-rail this to sports i like.

BJ penn was historically a great technician but with inadequate conditioning. i know he started doing crossfit a while back, and i think that's where the "fight gone bad" wod came from. does BJ still do crossfit? if not, who's managing his S&C?
He was being trained by Marv Marinovich, to the derision of keyboard warriors across the internetz.

I recall the CF links in the past but surely that would have been hammered home ad nauseum by Glassman. They used to love trading off Liddell's name.

Anyone remember when Glassman 'outed' Brad Pitt as being a X-fitter? Was that ever substantiated?
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Old 01-21-2011, 08:13 AM   #493
Geoffrey Thompson
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He did it for a short time many years ago. IIRC, he was training with Marv Marinovich nearly a year ago and is training with Floyd Mayweather Sr a little bit right now. IIRC.
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Old 01-21-2011, 09:25 AM   #494
Peter Dell'Orto
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Originally Posted by Geoffrey Thompson View Post
He did it for a short time many years ago. IIRC, he was training with Marv Marinovich nearly a year ago and is training with Floyd Mayweather Sr a little bit right now. IIRC.
I've just been assuming when the CF homepage mentions "cage fighters" they really mean BJ Penn back in the day.

He's not a great advertisement for conditioning, though. As much as I love BJ Penn (he's so slick and such a game fighter he's awesome to watch), I don't regard his conditioning as a strength.

Were their any other pros doing CF for a time?

I know many amateurs have, but that's not as impressive. Spoken as an amateur.
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Old 01-21-2011, 09:38 AM   #495
Garrett Smith
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Originally Posted by Júlíus G. Magnússon View Post
Brilliant.
Agreed.
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Old 01-21-2011, 11:24 AM   #496
Andrew Wilson
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Speaking of MMA:

What's wrong with crossfit?

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Why does everyone here seem to hate crossfit?
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crossfit is absolutely retarded. its all just idiotic crap with the underlying theme that if it makes you want to puke it must be good. nevermind the ridiculous mcdonaldsization of its licensing and certifications, and its magnetism for overly douchey egomaniacal participants.

here i will invent a crossfit workout out of my ass just like one of the hundreds of idiots with a weekend certification will do, only i wont charge you $200/month:

"Esmerelda"
1 mile run, 40 burpees, 15 deadlifts with bodyweight, 30 burpees, 15 deadlifts with bodyweight, 20 burpees, 15 deadlifts with bodyweight, 10 burpess, 15 deadlifts with bodyweight, 1 mile run. for time.
i have no clue why i wrote any of that, but it is hard as shit so it must be functional goddammit! also, i fucked your mother you elliptical using faggot.
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It's not even a good general routine unless you already have well developed strength and endurance. You need a decent aerobic and strength base to post impressive times on their benchmark workouts, but you'll never really get there doing stuff like 'fran' over and over.

Xfit is bascially a way for washed up athletes to show off and earn a living selling poorly conceived programing to less fit people.

It's the same marketing strategy used for all dodgy fitness products -- put an impressive athlete or fitness competitor in your marketing and then sell garbage to the the unwashed masses.
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"CrossFit is in large part derived from several simple observations garnered through hanging out with athletes for thirty years and willingness, if not eagerness, to experiment coupled with a total disregard for conventional wisdom. Let me share some of the more formative of these observations:
1. Gymnasts learn new sports faster than other athletes.
2. Olympic lifters can apply more useful power to more activities than other athletes.
3. Powerlifters are stronger than other athletes.
4. Sprinters can match the cardiovascular performance of endurance athletes even at extended efforts.
5. Endurance athletes are woefully lacking in total physical capacity.
6. With high carb diets you either get fat or weak.
7. Bodybuilders can't punch, jump, run, or throw like athletes can.
8. Segmenting training efforts delivers a segmented capacity.
9. Optimizing physical capacity requires training at unsustainable intensities.
10. The world's most successful athletes and coaches rely on exercise science the way deer hunters rely on the accordion."
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Originally Posted by Tom Lawlor
I have a feeling he is some science nerd who wouldn't be able to cut it in the weight room or on a wrestling mat.

Crossfit 4 life
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I'm particularly puzzled by the apparent close-mindedness and egos of the people in charge of Crossfit HQ. The number of respected, talented trainers they have driven away is astounding.
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LOL@number 10 of the crossfit FAQ list. Now they truly resemble creationists.
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that whole list is a pile of shit
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#5 and #6 are laugh out loud ridiculous. The balls on these guys to spout nonsense like this.

'04 was a good year for me, I was training for an oly distance tri. I was also repping 315x5 deadlift as a maintenance workout, had a 6pack and was eating over 50% of my diet in carbs.

2 years ago I was training for a mountain bike race and for sure I'd classify myself as an endurance athlete. Rack pulled 550, squat just under 300, pasta, potatoes.

#10, who are these clowns? LOL! Keep it coming, this is just comedy.
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you dont ever hear of anyone getting rhabdo on an elliptical, do you? i rest my case.
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The lack of structure and progression is why I don't like it, plus the people that follow it get really weird, I wouldn't be surprised to hear about a Crossfit mass-wedding ceremony.
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"metcon", and crossfit in general, is the clitoris of fitness...it supposedly gives you the best of both worlds(strength and cardio, or penis and vagina) but in reality its a poor subtitute for both individual components.
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who? Science, biology, the principle of adaption, kinesiology, The entire history of strength and conditioning, Hundreds if not thousands of highly qualified (degrees) scientists, doctors, trainers etc...

why? the simple explanation - adaption. doing random metcon crap will only make you good at random metcon crap. It will not allow you to make important max strength gains, it will not improve your alactic explosive powerbeyond a medicore level, it will not improve your aerobic capactiy or aerobic power in any signifigant way, and to think that you can magically make them all "elite fitness" worthy at the same time?? OMG.. *facepalm*

you know I'm you buddy man. always will be, but I think if you stepped back away from this thing and took a legit look you'd see that Glassmann flat out lied in many articles, crossfit journals, etc. along the way in building up this cult.
About Fran:
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Its an arbitrary benchmark of fitness. It doesnt exist in any sport except the one Crossfit made up. What is your onelegged hopping squat while carrying a backpack filled with sand and snakes time?

Glassman: "Ok, we are not stronger than powerlifters, we are not faster than sprinters, we arent good at long distance running, we need something to beat these guys at!!"

Crossfit Cronie: "Master Glassman!! How about we make up a bunch of exercises in random fashion and use it, since nobody competes in this, we will definatly dominate this!!"
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I bet I could beat Glassman up. How's that for a Fran time?
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But how fast can you beat him up?!? I bet my time would kills yours!
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You'd only beat my time if you kipped
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For the record, in all seriousness, I think I'd murder the average cross fitter at a Fran without even training for it. I'm aerobically fit and I'm strong with weights
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BEEF & CHEESE - CrossFit would also argue that if you train their way, you'll have respectable power lifts and a respectable 3 mile run.

I can say, from personal experience that this is simply not true. After CrossFitting for years, my power lifts (squat, deadlift, bench) dropped considerably.

I'll go one step farther and say that I doubt CrossFit has developed an athlete with respectable power lifts from scratch - Cross Fit lacking a pure strength component has been a long standing criticism.
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I never said Crossfit would advocate just doing Fran to improve fitness. But you still didn't explain how being able to do Fran demonstrates fitness. Why does being able to perform Thrusters and Pullup in 21, 15, and 9 reps sets for time demonstrate fitness? I could easily just train Thrusters and Pullups while avoiding all other exercises and my Fran time will be amazing, but I doubt that I would be considered "fit".
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Originally Posted by crosfitter
I like CrossFits definition of fitness which is: "work capacity across broad time and modal domains". Fran is a demonstration of that.
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How is Fran a demonstration of "work capacity across broad time and modal domains"? You keep saying it is, but have failed to show me how it demonstrates that.
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Originally Posted by crossfitter
Sorry, Fran by itself may not be broad time and modal domains. It is a demonstration of large loads moved long distances quickly. What the anecdotal evidence shows is training in the CrossFit methodology allows an athlete to perform well at Fran along with other examples with different loads and time requirements. Taken together that is work capacity across broad time and modal domains. That is there definition of fitness.
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Originally Posted by crossfitter
People keep throwing the "bad science" and "cult" crap around. I'm still waiting for an explanation of where their science goes bad. CrossFit is about measuring performance. Science begins when you measure.
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It was only a matter of time before he threatened to pull out the over-hyped, misrepresented and thoroughly abused Tabata study....
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My experience is similar to Leigh's. Abandoning Crossfit's programming has improved my strength without loosing my conditioning.
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Originally Posted by crossfitter
High reps of the Oly lifts with moderate weight as advocated by CrossFit is good for healthy shoulders imo.
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Originally Posted by crossfitter

I don't buy the "too technical to do under a high level of fatigue" at all. The high technicality and whole body coordination building of the lifts is exactly why I believe they should be done in high reps and with lots of fatigue.

BJJ/MMA/boxing, etc. are highly technical too. Athletes in those sports are always intentionally training and sparring while highly fatigued.
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i dont know how else to put this, but you are just a complete moron. kthxbye
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Originally Posted by crosfitter
Most of your post has been addressed earlier in this thread. I'll try to summarize. Whole body lifts done in high reps mimic real world demands of combat athletes/cops/military/firefighters. The potential risks are no big deal unless you're a dumb ass. Yes form slips with fatigue. Know your limits, don't be a dumb ass.
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Old 01-21-2011, 12:05 PM   #497
Bryan Kemper
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Is a harvest of as many anti-Crossfit postings around the internet really necessary?
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Old 01-21-2011, 12:08 PM   #498
Andrew Wilson
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Added to page 8:

"Anaerobic training can match endurance training for aerobic benefit" [sic]
No this is wrong. Endurance training elicits increases in cardiac volume, adaptive changes in the peripherical circulations, bioenergetic efficiency in steady state, increases oxidative capacity of the slow twitch fibers, contractility of the fast twitch fibers with slow twitch fibers, enhances the oxidative capacity of fast twitch fibers (Verkhoshansky, 1999). Anaerobic training does not.

The VO2max is only optimually developed in 100%-80% VO2max, that's maximal runs in 2mi-13mi. Anaerobic effort exceeds the 100% of the VO2max; that's the purpose of having the anaerobic energy pathways in the first place. Just doing anaerobic training you will not develop the optimal physiological effects that are specifically developed during aerobic training mentioned above. Interval training increases VO2max because these elite athletes that use interval training, do so at a pace, not maximal run, or continue effort at a lower intensity during the rest period; not just stopping as people think. This is seen in Seb Coe's 7x800m (3.5mi), he runs the 800m at 5km pace, which is one way he built his VO2max to run a 3:47 mile, and Roger Bannister's 10x400m (2.5mi+) with two minutes of jogging as rest and 5x800m with 6 minute job as rest.
I'll write something up on the CrossFit Tabata later today
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Old 01-21-2011, 12:09 PM   #499
Geoffrey Thompson
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Wait. Somebody actually said this?!
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High reps of the Oly lifts with moderate weight as advocated by CrossFit is good for healthy shoulders imo.
This demonstrates he is not qualified to have an opinion. Here's a better opinion: CrossFit slop is not a good thing to apply to the Oly lifts because it's bad for your shoulders. Look at the CrossFit Injury forum for guidance on this one.
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Old 01-21-2011, 12:22 PM   #500
Andrew Wilson
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