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Old 01-21-2011, 10:09 PM   #511
Andrew Wilson
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Originally Posted by Bryan Kemper View Post
Again, give me a break. Why does the snatch or clean & jerk be such sacred lift that performing more than singles or doubles comprise such a mortal sin? The same two guys did very well in the meet that weekend performing competition versions of the lifts.
You have to consider the purpose of doing the snatch and clean/jolt, and there's not much purpose in doing 30 reps with 60kr. Especially when its just yanked. And pressed.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejR5HDAgjAY
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Old 01-21-2011, 10:13 PM   #512
Garrett Smith
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Those guys' lumbar discs are paying a high price over time. They are in lumbar flexion almost that entire session. CF has not undone or figured out how to outsmart McGill's work on disc forces.

Bryan, you aren't likely to find much support here for high-rep WL a la Isabel.

One wouldn't think to do 30 pole vaults or 30 shotputs for time, that would seem silly...or did I just create the first two CF T&F WODs just now?

We don't want to confuse what we are ABLE to do, with what is SMART and/or PRODUCTIVE to do.
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Old 01-22-2011, 12:31 AM   #513
Justin Arnold
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We don't want to confuse what we are ABLE to do, with what is SMART and/or PRODUCTIVE to do.
That's the missing 11th CF component of fitness
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Old 01-22-2011, 04:11 AM   #514
Clay Montero
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I honestly believe that this thread is the reason why this video was created

(...and CF covering their asses for down the track)

A testament to your good work here Andrew. Keep it up.
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Old 01-22-2011, 05:20 AM   #515
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One wouldn't think to do 30 pole vaults or 30 shotputs for time, that would seem silly...or did I just create the first two CF T&F WODs just now?
I'm going to have to watch the main page to see if this shows up.
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Old 01-22-2011, 09:32 AM   #516
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Old 01-22-2011, 09:34 AM   #517
Tyler Fischer
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Why is this so shitty? The intention is not a IWF standard snatch with zero press out. It is 30 Snatches for time. Power, full, muscle snatch or press out....doesn't matter. Just ground to overhead without stopping at the shoulder. Completing this in just over a 60 seconds, they look pretty good. Open hips and full lock out overhead.

Give it a rest.
Bryan,

First off, Dave and Josh are both stand-up guys (and strong as shit) and I mean no disrespect, but to call these snatches is just... incorrect. To better explain my point, I'm going to quote from Greg Everett's October 2009 article in Volume 5, Issue 57 of the Performance Menu Journal. In it, he discusses the "snatch" event from the 2009 CrossFit Games:

"This one may have stung a bit for a number of people, and for that I apologize, but my assessment is not one arising from anything but what I feel are reasonable expectations of a community that strives for and claims the status of elite. The snatch is a competitive exercise that conforms accordingly to a number of technical rules. These rules are not exclusively for the sake of competition, however—there are elements of execution that are important for the sake of athletic development. Two extremely basic ones are that no part of the body other than the feet can contact the ground, and that the bar must be received and held overhead with fully extended elbows. Both of these were violated repeatedly by many competitors, often dramatically. In fact, it seemed at times, the greater the violation, the more people were impressed.

Having said all this, part of the problem could have been resolved by simply not calling the event a snatch—call it a ground to overhead anyhow, and I have no serious complaints. However, if the precision of the exercise is removed, so is much of the point. If the goal is to simply move weight with no concern for how, there are better ways to do it, which move more weight. The only reason I can imagine to hold a snatch event is to distinguish athletes further along in their development to those less experienced—those who have put in the time and effort to develop greater skill than the next athlete. Once you remove the technical requirements, it’s simply another strength event—so why not squat, press, etc. instead?"


As Andrew and Garrett already pointed out, sure, you can do Olympic lifts for high-reps, but it's relatively pointless and negates the purpose and effectiveness of the exercise/s. An even worse crime is making inexperienced trainees do these lifts for 75+ reps before developing proper technique, which will lead to disgusting form and eventual injury. There are much easier, far safer, and more effective ways to improve conditioning. See: sprints, Prowler, sandbags, kettlebells, etc. Basically, all the stuff CrossFit took and then added thrusters and wall climbs to.

Quick disclaimers:

1) If you want to "move large loads quickly," you actually have to use large loads.

2) If you want to "improve your work capacity across broad time and modal domains," you have to realize how purple-squirrel insane that so-called definition is.

What am I doing? All of this has been said a billion times over. I'm going to watch Kitchen Nightmares...
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Old 01-22-2011, 09:51 AM   #518
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Quote:
The same two guys did very well in the meet that weekend performing competition versions of the lifts.
No offense to Lipson, I know him, and he will admit this, but he is not that great at the lifts. He can muscle weights up easily but he has no form; he has admitted this. There is a reason why his snatch is over 100lbs less than his OHS.

And you don't need to perform just singles or doubles on them, I have seen videos of Szymon Kolecki and George Asanidze snatching 150kg for 5 repetitions, except they did them without breaking form or even taking a step forward or backwards.

No matter what you say, Bryan, if someone is more efficient at snatching and CJ'ing, they are going to outperform and outlive the rest of the competition. It is how it is.
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Old 01-22-2011, 12:01 PM   #519
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Old 01-22-2011, 12:17 PM   #520
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Nothing better than Huster's Tekken victory dances.
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