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Old 01-27-2011, 08:16 PM   #561
Russell Crosswy
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Ppst?
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Old 01-27-2011, 09:56 PM   #562
raj rihal
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Practical programming for Strength Training

rippetoe and kilgore
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Old 01-28-2011, 10:45 AM   #563
Russell Crosswy
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Ahh... I thought so.

I have that book, but haven't read it yet.


I know Andrew Wilson quoted from and displayed graphs from several books.
I may need to run through this thread again and compile the list of those books to add to my Amazon wish list.
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Old 01-28-2011, 11:15 AM   #564
Cyril Sack
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okay, a couple thoughts that have been bouncing around in my head:

1) Has anyone actually asked Brian Clay what he thinks of all this? With so many people using him as an example, surely he's been approached. Anyone tried to actually facilitate some sort of head-to-head event or anything like that? I for one would be utterly fascinated by such a thing. The die-hard crossfitters and the die-hard anti-crossfitters wouldn't have their opinions changed, but I'm sure many people would love to see the "world's fittest athlete" compete against the "world's fittest man." It wouldn't even need to be a competition, just some friendly exchanges. Somebody should email/call that guy and see what's up. Enough with the hypothetical situations already. Glassman has clearly stated he welcomes outsiders to try their hand at the games. If Clay, or any other decathelete isn't interested in that, I'm sure many of the big named athletes in the crossfit world would be willing to participate. Then again, maybe he's sick of people using him as some sort of counter-example.

2) I don't really follow the logic of some posters on this thread in regards to glassman's personal fitness levels. Being a coach and being an athlete are two separate efforts. Sure, there are plenty of successful S&C coaches who are also excellent athletes - Horton, Rip, Louie, DeFranco, etc. But being good at one doesn't necessitate being good at the other. So what if he can't perform deadlifts shiftless (who asked to see that anyway????) That doesn't mean he can't coach well. Besides, at this point, he's long since moved from coaching athletes to running a multi-million dollar company. For whatever reasons he has (apparently he's injured?) he doesn't have the peak level of fitness that he claims his program produces. But that's okay, because many of his athletes do. Isn't that the hallmark of good coaching? Nobody would expect Rex Ryan to perform any physical task he asks his players to do, but that doesn't disqualify him from coaching well.

anyway, just some thoughts I had. Fire away....
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Old 01-28-2011, 11:38 AM   #565
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Cyril, just an FYI. It was Glassman himself who challenged Caviston to the shirtless deadlift competition.

As far as Clay entering a comp, he is probably smart enough and has nothing to prove that doing a "let's go destroy ourselves chipper" a la CF competition would hold no plausible benefit to him, and could completely derail his training.

Regarding the Iowa athletes, I wonder if the football coaches actually realize that full, true, strength recovery from rhabdo takes months, if not a full year. Those same guys may go back on the field only to get their clocks cleaned because their muscles aren't quite working like they expect them to.
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Old 01-28-2011, 11:41 AM   #566
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Why would an Olympic-level competitive athlete bother to take the time to compete at something against some nobodies in a forum that would only serve to validate a commercial brand? Seems like there's nothing to gain on his end and a lot to lose - including one of the most valuable assets for a real athlete, training time. Doing any sort of anything with CrossFit only serves to advance their corporate interests.
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Old 01-28-2011, 11:44 AM   #567
Geoffrey Thompson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garrett Smith View Post
Cyril, just an FYI. It was Glassman himself who challenged Caviston to the shirtless deadlift competition.
Glassman mocked Caviston's deadlift form, Caviston challenged him to the competition. Not the other way around. I think it's a fair response. Caviston is a legitimate beast, knows what he's talking about, and is willing to stand behind it.
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Old 01-28-2011, 11:52 AM   #568
Russell Crosswy
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For #1, I think Bryan Clay has bigger fish to fry. Being a world-caliber and champion decathlete I'm sure he gets his name thrown around for challenges such as CF and I bet he gets approached directly for stuff like that as well. But Clay has to consider how that fits into his overall goals. If he took on every challenge that came his way, which I would think is a lot, he would end up fatigued or injured at best.

Specifically on a CF challenge, would a world-caliber athlete care? The events are chosen at random so there is no baseline to compare to. It would be akin to saying that you can beat Usain Bolt at lawn darts. That's great and all, but so what?

Would I watch a top-CFers vs. decathletes challenge? Yeah, but there would have to be some balancing to the events. Part CF WODs, part decathlon events. To say that top CFers can beat decathletes at CF WODs is not as impressive as saying top CFers can beat decathletes at decathlon events.

One point I think is huge is that some, maybe all?, of the decathlon events require a higher skill level than any CF WOD. The long jump, shot put, high jump, discus throw, javelin throw, and hurdles are VERY skill intensive. One misstep and you won't perform well. I'm not a decathlete, but tried my hand at some of these events in high school and college and I can say in my personal experience that all of those decathlon events are harder skill-wise than anything I've done or seen in a CF WOD. The only CF movements that come close are a ring handstand pushup or other gymnastics based movements.

I think if CFHQ is so confident in there athletes as the "fittest" on Earth then they should enter a decathlon competition and see how they do. I think if they did that randomly (unknown and unknowable) it would be uncomfortable or hilarious to watch. Give the top CFers 6 months to practice those skills and it might be close on some events.


On #2, Glassman having a gut has nothing to do with injuries and everything to do with his diet. Even if an injury prevents him from working out much he could watch his diet and at least look like he is in shape. They are promoting the Zone Diet right?

You are right that a great coach does not have to be a great athlete and visa versa. However, I think several here would argue that the top CFers currently have a solid strength and conditioning background from college or higher level sports. To show CF as superior to every other program imaginable we would need to see an athlete who has been training with CF for most of their training career while delivering top-end performances in different sports metrics.

Also, who does Glassman coach? Who has he coached personally? I have no idea, that doesn't mean he hasn't coached someone to elite level performance, but if he has where are they?

If mainsite programming is seen as his coaching, then the question would be where are the top CFers using the mainsite programming? I don't think there are any. Just as in the video where Chris Spealler talks about digging deep and really pushing it during a WOD and not being able to recover very quickly, I think that is the problem with trying to follow the mainsite programming. You end up digging so deep most of the time that you end up burying yourself. That doesn't mean someone can't do it, but should you? Do you come out better in the end? I don't think so. There is a difference between training to induce an adaptive stress and just going until you can't go anymore to see how deep you can dig into yourself.

You can only run the engine at redline for so long before you blow the engine. Unfortunately for humans we haven't figured out how to swap out the engine like we can in a car. So, you have to take care of the engine you have. You can floor it at every stop light if you want, but I think you will wear some things out before others who only floor it a few times.
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Old 01-28-2011, 12:20 PM   #569
Cyril Sack
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wow, thanks everyone for such intelligent and quick responses. As you can see, I usually lurk on the site and rarely post, primarily because I'm behind the power curve when it comes to information about the S&C community. I didn't realize the shirtless deadlift competition originated from glassman and not vice versa. And I think you're right Russell, it seems like he hasn't coached some one in a while, as far as we know. Certainly his time is currently absorbed by running a large and quickly expanding company. And besides, CF was always more of a meshing of a number of different disciplines with various subject matter experts each handling their own area. However, I still disagree with anyone who thinks that because he hasn't kept himself at an elite level of fitness, he is disqualified from assisting others.

As for the decathlete vs. CFer issue, I guess I too strongly suggested that somebody should just get Clay on the phone. Of course that guy is too busy to go around answering every challenge he must get. It's only right that he protects himself. I suppose the onus would be on CF, as practitioners of a GPP, to try to venture out and test themselves in the world of track and field. Their recent Sports Series seems to actually follow that logic to a degree. I know that I for one, as a CFer, certainly enjoy doing just that. I semi-regularly do adventure races and trail races for fun and to see if my general fitness can translate into a decent performance at a particular skill. Perhaps some CFers will try their hand at a decathlon. Maybe their already planning too.
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Old 01-28-2011, 12:37 PM   #570
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