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Old 12-08-2010, 12:06 PM   #71
Blair Lowe
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Blame this on the proliferation of the Olympic Lifts into use by the masses.

One of the mondo expensive gyms around here expouses the Olympic Lifts for their S&C. This is not just a gym, but a gym, spa, salon, club for the wealthy. I don't know exactly how rich you have to be, but I don't hear of people making under 6 digits going there.

So it's not just about being HC, it can be about functional. But what happens when they are doing them on their own because they saw them in Men's Health or Maxim? 1/4 squats with 25's.
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Old 12-08-2010, 12:15 PM   #72
Andrew Wilson
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On my first post concerning metabolic conditioning:

"Anaerobic training can match endurance training for aerobic benefit" [sic]
No this is wrong. Endurance training elicits increases in cardiac volume, adaptive changes in the peripherical circulations, bioenergetic efficiency in steady state, increases oxidative capacity of the slow twitch fibers, contractility of the fast twitch fibers with slow twitch fibers, enhances the oxidative capacity of fast twitch fibers (Verkhoshansky, 1999). Anaerobic training does not.


The VO2max is only optimually developed in 100%-80% VO2max, that's maximal runs in 2mi-13mi. Anaerobic effort exceeds the 100% of the VO2max; that's the purpose of having the anaerobic energy pathways in the first place. Just doing anaerobic training you will not develop the optimal physiological effects that are specifically developed during aerobic training mentioned above. Interval training increases VO2max because these elite athletes that use interval training, do so at a pace, not maximal run, or continue effort at a lower intensity during the rest period; not just stopping as people think. This is seen in Seb Coe's 7x800m (3.5mi), he runs the 800m at 5km pace, which is one way he built his VO2max to run a 3:47 mile, and Roger Bannister's 10x400m (2.5mi+) with two minutes of jogging as rest and 5x800m with 6 minute job as rest.


"Metabolic training with varying and mixed exercise modalities avoids specificity of adaptation following for additional first wave - cardiovascular/respiratory adaptations, and increased functional strength" [sic]
One, all training is metabolic training for metabolic reactions are the only means to produce energy for any physical and contracile effort. Therefore high intensity circuits solely called metabolic conditioning is wrong. Two, adaptation is the ability of the body to cope with specific tasks under specific conditions (Siff, 2004). To tell the body to simply not adapt to particular and specific physical stressors is impossible, and to neglect specifity of adaptation, is simply not adapting to anything at all therfore adaptative reconstruction is not taking place. If the sportsman is not adapting, physiological improvements are void; and if the sportsman is not systematically and specifically exposed to stressors that enable them to efficiently manage future exposure, the sportsman will not be prepared for anything.

On Anaerobics and Aerobics
Only Anaerobics "Increases power, speed, and strength" [sic]
This is wrong. How would CrossFit explain Manny Pacquiao's power, speed and strength in round 13? Or Kenenisa Bekele's 26:17 world record in the 10,000m? Power, speed, and strength are dependant and developed on the adaptation of resistance and speed of contractile movement, the inter and intramuscular coordination of the muscle fibers for contractile effort, the frequency and intensity of neurological firing based on previous exposure and present use; the rate it can produce force. Thus the production of ATP is simply the supplimentation of energy for these efforts are not the cause.


Aerobics "Burn Muscle" [sic]
No this is patheticly wrong. The muscle quantity in the human body does not change or yet to be conditionally proved under normal conditions to change in quantity; and hyperplasia is heavily questioned. Muscles simply change in size experiencing hypertrophy or atrophy, simply because of the increase or decrease in the number and size of individual myofibrils in the fibers and connective tissue. Volume of non contractile protein and semifluid plasma between the myofibrils decrease or increase, or there is an increase or decrease in the size and number of sarcomeres that comprise the myofibrils. These are by products of bioenergetic and muscular tension demands in specificity of training. Otherwise ultramarathon runners would have two muscles fibers according to CrossFit.

Only Anaerobics "Builds Muscle" [sic]
No wrong, same thing.

Only Anaerobics "Aids in all sports"
An amatuer statement. Same as the first point.

Anaerobics "Develops aerobic capacity" [sic]
No... it does not. Both have individual cellular organs that house the production of adenosine triphosphate in their own way, they do not cross over. Otherwise according to CrossFit Usain Bolt would win all the 100mi races. Anaerobics aid in myocardial power, work power of the neuromuscular system, increase the work power of the muscular system at specific regimes of recall, and decrease the parity between adenosine triphosphate production w/ & w/o oxygen at varying intensities of effort as they collaborate in physical performance.

Pukie on VO2max:
VO2max is the relative maximum volume per millilter per body mass per minute consumed; how much oxygen can be consumed per breath of air over a minute. It is the golden standard because it has a high revalance of the body's ability to attach oxygen to hemoglobin in the blood and to be used metabolically to produce ATP efficiently.
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Old 12-08-2010, 01:32 PM   #73
Arien Malec
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Wilson View Post
"Anaerobic training can match endurance training for aerobic benefit"
No this is wrong. Endurance training elicits increases in cardiac volume, adaptive changes in the peripherical circulations, bioenergetic efficiency in steady state, increases oxidative capacity of the slow twitch fibers, contractility of the fast twitch fibers with slow twitch fibers, enhances the oxidative capacity of fast twitch fibers (Verkhoshansky, 199). Anaerobic training does not.
Really?

I'm not sure exactly what "anaerobic training" is, but if we place training on a spectrum, 2000m rowing would seem to be more biased towards anaerobic pathways than marathon running or long distance cycling. Are you saying that the massive hearts and VO2Max of elite rowers is only due to the 70% of energy that comes from the aerobic pathways, and the power output of the other 30% (and recovery from same) has no contribution?

If I did nothing but run 100m sprints, I would get no improvement in VO2Max?

(Sorry for messing up the flow of the hate).
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Old 12-08-2010, 02:19 PM   #74
Ben Moskowitz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arien Malec View Post
(Sorry for messing up the flow of the hate).
ditto, what about the pictures of very skinny cyclists vs. hypertrophied sprinters that are touted as clear evidence that aerobics destroy muscle while higher-powered activities build it? I mean that's an open-and-shut case right there, no?
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Old 12-08-2010, 02:31 PM   #75
Arien Malec
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Moskowitz View Post
ditto, what about the pictures of very skinny cyclists vs. hypertrophied sprinters that are touted as clear evidence that aerobics destroy muscle while higher-powered activities build it? I mean that's an open-and-shut case right there, no?
On the off chance you aren't being facetious:

That's confusing correlation and causation. Elite marathon runners and cyclists lose muscle deliberately to reduce the work that needs to be performed.
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Old 12-08-2010, 02:52 PM   #76
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Old 12-08-2010, 02:57 PM   #77
Andrew Wilson
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Old 12-08-2010, 03:04 PM   #78
Andrew Wilson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Moskowitz View Post
ditto, what about the pictures of very skinny cyclists vs. hypertrophied sprinters that are touted as clear evidence that aerobics destroy muscle while higher-powered activities build it? I mean that's an open-and-shut case right there, no?
Very skinny cyclists:

Hypertrophied sprinters:
100m 200m
400m
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Old 12-08-2010, 03:21 PM   #79
Arien Malec
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Wilson View Post
Neither do I hahaha, I'm assuming "anaerobic training" [sic] he means 100m dash or 1-3 rep maximal lifts that last as long as the oxygen deficit on initiation. Other wise anything else has a building use of oxidation/aerobic energy system, or a dominance switch between both based demands in performance.
Right. Glassman means "anaerobic dominant" except that the Crossfit time domains aren't even anaerobic dominant. So "anaerobic dominantish". 6 minute duration power-dominant activities can develop VO2Max. Witness rowers. So the phrase means nothing.

If the quote were "intense efforts over shorter (3-12 minute) durations can develop cardiovascular capacity as well or better than longer slower distance events" would you disagree?

Quote:
It [development of CV benefits from 100m runs] would depend on the rest interval between each 100m and the type of rest, which greatly effects which energy system you use to regenerate the ATP expended during the original 100m. Like some middle distance runners would do 20x100m but the rest intervals would solely be jogging and be like 30 seconds. While a decathlete would do 10x100m and may rest 5 minutes inbetween standing. In this case the 20x100m with 30 second jog as rest would see an improvement in VO2max as in its a form of fartlek.
But doesn't every recovery from a max effort 100m run require pretty intense demands on the CV system? The 100m effort is primarily ATP/glycolytic but the recovery sure isn't, no?
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Old 12-08-2010, 04:58 PM   #80
Donald Lee
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People who are sedentary and start lifting weights experience improvements in RHR, indicating an increase in stroke volume at rest, which indicates an increase in left ventricular volume.

People who are sedentary will also experience improvements in VO2 Max from training like a 100 m sprinter.

But so what?
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