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Old 02-22-2011, 09:03 AM   #961
Todd Rehm
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Originally Posted by Cyril Sack View Post
And if the whole CF pyramid comes crashing down, there are going to be some awesome "going out of business" sales.
I'm kind of counting on this at least as some of the weaker affiliates go out of business.
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Old 02-22-2011, 09:29 AM   #962
Steven Madison
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Which is exactly why I am a member at a Crossfit gym and avoid the base gym or another globo gym like the plague.
Hey Bryan, just a quick question. If you are doing 5/3/1 AND OLY training AND you belong to a WOD factory that utilizes VERY little direct strength training, how can you claim you are doing crossfit?

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Originally Posted by Bryan Kemper on @Fit forums
Since I am not specifically training for PL/Oly meets, but simply doing my local affiliate programming and supplementing with 531 and Oly technique...
You sure spend a lot of time in here defending a program that you don't even participate in.
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Old 02-22-2011, 10:29 AM   #963
Bryan Kemper
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Hey Bryan, just a quick question. If you are doing 5/3/1 AND OLY training AND you belong to a WOD factory that utilizes VERY little direct strength training, how can you claim you are doing crossfit?



You sure spend a lot of time in here defending a program that you don't even participate in.
Because, that is what I do as a program. Yes, I do additional lifting with the 531 protocol. Yes, I want to improve on my Olympic lifts and compete. Yes, the affiliate that I belong to needs to program more strength work and less met-con beatdowns. But you are completely wrong in saying that I defend a program that I don't participate in.

I have done Crossfit strength and conditioning training for over two years and believe in the program whole-heartedly. The fact that I want to work on strength in addition to the programming or enjoy Oly-lifting does not detract, just enhances the training.
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Old 02-22-2011, 10:53 AM   #964
Steven Madison
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Because, that is what I do as a program. Yes, I do additional lifting with the 531 protocol. Yes, I want to improve on my Olympic lifts and compete. Yes, the affiliate that I belong to needs to program more strength work and less met-con beatdowns. But you are completely wrong in saying that I defend a program that I don't participate in.

I have done Crossfit strength and conditioning training for over two years and believe in the program whole-heartedly. The fact that I want to work on strength in addition to the programming or enjoy Oly-lifting does not detract, just enhances the training.
You believe in crossfit whole-heartedly but you don't do it? Odd one that. Perhaps you could explain to this noob how the 5/3/1 protocol fits this definition:

"Constantly varied, functional movements performed at high intensity. "
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Old 02-22-2011, 11:06 AM   #965
Bryan Kemper
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You believe in crossfit whole-heartedly but you don't do it? Odd one that. Perhaps you could explain to this noob how the 5/3/1 protocol fits this definition:

"Constantly varied, functional movements performed at high intensity. "
When have I ever said that "I don't do Crossfit"? Just because I wish to incorporate additional lifting into my training does not negate Crossfit-esque style workouts.

If I want to take your bait, in my opinion, lifting with the 5/3/1 protocol can fit that definition. It is a constantly varied program in that you are not lifting the same weight or reps each week. The periodization schedule is allows for proper gains. Yes, I understand that the entire concept of "periodization" is verboten when discussing Crossfit.

531 are functional lifts...squat, DL, press and bench. Some will say that the bench is non-functional, but it is a lift that I need to work on and the protocol is a good way to do so. Is the Bench one of my favorites. Not in the least. I don't like lifts that require an outside spotter for safety. My opinion/preference.

High intensity....last lift of the day is max reps to failure. Sounds intense to me.

I am not trying to saying that everything is Crossfit and therefore by extrapolation that nothing is Crossfit. Do what you like, call it what you like, just do something. If you don't like it, don't do it. But, by all means whine and complain about it on the internet.
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Old 02-22-2011, 12:07 PM   #966
Tom Seryak
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If I want to take your bait, in my opinion, lifting with the 5/3/1 protocol can fit that definition. It is a constantly varied program in that you are not lifting the same weight or reps each week. The periodization schedule is allows for proper gains. Yes, I understand that the entire concept of "periodization" is verboten when discussing Crossfit.

High intensity....last lift of the day is max reps to failure. Sounds intense to me.

I am not trying to saying that everything is Crossfit and therefore by extrapolation that nothing is Crossfit. Do what you like, call it what you like, just do something. If you don't like it, don't do it. But, by all means whine and complain about it on the internet.
CrossFit = constantly varied (movements), 531 does not constantly vary movements. Changing load and volume is called progression = the opposite of CrossFit. Wendler recommends that even the final set NOT be performed to MMF, so you can say that all of 531 sets are submax = opposite of CrossFit. 531 is about as anti-CrossFit as you can get!
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Old 02-22-2011, 12:23 PM   #967
Bryan Kemper
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CrossFit = constantly varied (movements), 531 does not constantly vary movements. Changing load and volume is called progression = the opposite of CrossFit. Wendler recommends that even the final set NOT be performed to MMF, so you can say that all of 531 sets are submax = opposite of CrossFit. 531 is about as anti-CrossFit as you can get!
Understood. Is 531 the backbone of my training? It is additional lifting that I feel gets me the results that I want. Is it anti-Crossfit, so what?

When a strength only day...ie Deadlift 5-5-5-5-5 or 1-1-1-1-1. Are you saying that one should not change the load from the prior 5-5-5-5-5 or 1-1-1-1-1 workout?

Are you saying that if anyone deviates one iota from what is posted on crossfit.com then they are by definition not using the Crossfit methodology? I beg to differ. I don't want to get into a urination contest on what is and what is not "Crossfit"? If you don't like it, don't do it...just whine about it on the internet.
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Old 02-22-2011, 12:32 PM   #968
Tom Seryak
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Understood. Is 531 the backbone of my training? It is additional lifting that I feel gets me the results that I want. Is it anti-Crossfit, so what?

When a strength only day...ie Deadlift 5-5-5-5-5 or 1-1-1-1-1. Are you saying that one should not change the load from the prior 5-5-5-5-5 or 1-1-1-1-1 workout?

Are you saying that if anyone deviates one iota from what is posted on crossfit.com then they are by definition not using the Crossfit methodology? I beg to differ. I don't want to get into a urination contest on what is and what is not "Crossfit"? If you don't like it, don't do it...just whine about it on the internet.
i'm not whining at all and i don't do it anymore, my adrenals won't allow it. .com does not define crossfit. crossfit is defined by:

1. constantly varied functional movements - today's movements are different than yesterday's. the movements in a 3 day cycle are different from the previous 3 day cycle. the movements/workouts from this month are different from the previous month, and so on...progression is ignored.

2. high (intended max) intensity - strength workouts = max out regardless of the rep range, conditioning workouts = "for time" or "for rounds" there is no variation in intensity (ie submax effort, deload week, etc.)

THAT is what crossfit is whether you do it via .com or somewhere else. There are a lot of CrossFit affiliates that do not do CrossFit by CrossFit's own definitions.
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Old 02-22-2011, 12:44 PM   #969
Ola Persson
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the 5/3/1 protocol can fit that definition
Since crossfit is the black hole of fitness this is correct. Nothing can escape the meaningless definitions of a drunkard and even cf’s complete opposites – like 5/3/1 – are absorbed. Comments like this might seem uneducated but it only marks the event horizon – can someone please inform Wendler et al that there is no return, no escape. This is Glassman's world, the rest of us just exercise in it.
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Old 02-22-2011, 02:18 PM   #970
Derek Weaver
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Originally Posted by Bryan Kemper View Post
Understood. Is 531 the backbone of my training? It is additional lifting that I feel gets me the results that I want. Is it anti-Crossfit, so what?

When a strength only day...ie Deadlift 5-5-5-5-5 or 1-1-1-1-1. Are you saying that one should not change the load from the prior 5-5-5-5-5 or 1-1-1-1-1 workout?

Are you saying that if anyone deviates one iota from what is posted on crossfit.com then they are by definition not using the Crossfit methodology? I beg to differ. I don't want to get into a urination contest on what is and what is not "Crossfit"? If you don't like it, don't do it...just whine about it on the internet.
Urination contest... high comedy.

The biggest whiner in this thread is the CF'er who has admitted that he can't walk away from it even after declaring several times that he's "out", even when faced with legitimate arguments against a pointless program that has been invalidated by science and real world accounts.

By the way, 5/3/1 declares max reps, but Wendler has noted several times that you are well served leaving a rep or two in the tank to avoid burning out. Very anti-Crossfity thinking.
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