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Old 12-11-2010, 10:45 AM   #21
Jon Pechette
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Here is Ben Smith's blog, not sure if it will help, though.
http://crossfitodu.blogspot.com/sear...max-results=22
(link wfs)

I can't really seem to identify any specific structure. It seems to be lift heavy and do plenty of CrossFit. He doesn't seem to post too often, so I'm not sure if this is an accurate representation of his programming.
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Old 12-11-2010, 04:49 PM   #22
Emily Mattes
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Josh, have you spoken with your Oly coach (I'm assuming you have a coach) with regards to devising a strength or strength maintenance program, and then adding in metcons like you'd find on Crossfit Football? You're totally correct that with your lifting background you need something more sophisticated than SS, and I think at 18 you could probably push yourself with volume beyond 5/3/1 and still see gains (provided you aren't doing three metcons a day craziness).

Another option would be investigating a Westside-style program combined with Crossfit metcons afterwards. Chris Mason wrote an article for the Crossfit Journal on combining Crossfit and Westside. A Westside template is extremely flexible and can basically require as much volume as you'd like from it, and it's pretty easy to integrate more conditioning work from it. I've been having great success from it myself and I don't have nearly the training experience that you do. An extra benefit is that Westside programs tend to emphasize a lot more posterior-chain developing exercises, which can be tremendously helpful for people with bad backs. And adding in box squats, reverse hypers, sled pulls, etc have done a LOT for my Olympic lifting, as I found that area to be severely undertrained by my Oly program (though given your PLing background that may not be an issue).
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Old 12-11-2010, 06:19 PM   #23
Joshua Straiton
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emily Mattes View Post
Josh, have you spoken with your Oly coach (I'm assuming you have a coach) with regards to devising a strength or strength maintenance program, and then adding in metcons like you'd find on Crossfit Football? You're totally correct that with your lifting background you need something more sophisticated than SS, and I think at 18 you could probably push yourself with volume beyond 5/3/1 and still see gains (provided you aren't doing three metcons a day craziness).

Another option would be investigating a Westside-style program combined with Crossfit metcons afterwards. Chris Mason wrote an article for the Crossfit Journal on combining Crossfit and Westside. A Westside template is extremely flexible and can basically require as much volume as you'd like from it, and it's pretty easy to integrate more conditioning work from it. I've been having great success from it myself and I don't have nearly the training experience that you do. An extra benefit is that Westside programs tend to emphasize a lot more posterior-chain developing exercises, which can be tremendously helpful for people with bad backs. And adding in box squats, reverse hypers, sled pulls, etc have done a LOT for my Olympic lifting, as I found that area to be severely undertrained by my Oly program (though given your PLing background that may not be an issue).
Hey Emily,
Sadly, I do not have a coach. I have read every book I could get my hans on and have read articles on the web. Been reading for years about it all. I have Greg's book, some dvd's but that is about it. I'm in college so it would be hard to consistently have a coach while I'm there. I've recently gotten involved in a crossfit gym down the road from me, but my Olympic lifting knowledge/experience greatly surpasses the coaches there (sad I know).

But I have read the article your talking about and would love to incorporate westside into my training, but I have no access to to reverse hyper/back extension machine/even a box for box squats at my school gym. And I'm not exactly sure how to program them in, I mean right now I'm focusing on my Olympic lifting and Squatting. I want to build up my posterior chain so ill be doing good mornings and SLDL's and a lot of core work to keep my spine (which naturally has a large curve) in a neutral position. I wish I could do reverse hypers everyday, and sled work, and glute work because i'm pretty sure my weaknesses there are adding to my back problems. I've been doing the Mobility wods and working seriously on opening up my hips and adding flexibility to my hamstrings.

I know I need a coach. Its a number one priority, and I probably have developed bad habits with my lifts just from being self taught, but I was so intrigued when I learned then a few years ago that I had to continue. I've done the best I can. I'll try and post video's on here soon of me working up to heavy singles so you guys can pick me apart http://www.performancemenu.com/forum...cons/icon7.gif
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Old 12-11-2010, 06:20 PM   #24
Joshua Straiton
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And Jon I checked out your link, thanks a lot man some good stuff on his blog.
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Old 12-11-2010, 06:34 PM   #25
Jon Pechette
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Wilson View Post
WRT: 2400m
WT: Weight Training 10RM squat x3, 10x10 Pushups with 10sec rest between x 4 series (400 total), 10x10 pullups with 10sec rest between sets x 4 series (400 total)
and 26mi of weekly running
Sounds like a solid training program. Very high volume of running, I'm sure Josh Everett's training program did not consist of anywhere near that mileage.

How much time do you take between each pushup and pullup series? Also, are the pullups kipping or deadhang? Either way that's a ridiculous amount of pullups, especially if they're deadhang. 400 pushups isn't too bad, but 400 pullups? wow.
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Old 12-11-2010, 06:45 PM   #26
Brian DeGennaro
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Josh, where in college are you at?
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Old 12-11-2010, 06:55 PM   #27
Emily Mattes
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshua Straiton View Post
But I have read the article your talking about and would love to incorporate westside into my training, but I have no access to to reverse hyper/back extension machine/even a box for box squats at my school gym. And I'm not exactly sure how to program them in, I mean right now I'm focusing on my Olympic lifting and Squatting. I want to build up my posterior chain so ill be doing good mornings and SLDL's and a lot of core work to keep my spine (which naturally has a large curve) in a neutral position. I wish I could do reverse hypers everyday, and sled work, and glute work because i'm pretty sure my weaknesses there are adding to my back problems. I've been doing the Mobility wods and working seriously on opening up my hips and adding flexibility to my hamstrings.

I know I need a coach. Its a number one priority, and I probably have developed bad habits with my lifts just from being self taught, but I was so intrigued when I learned then a few years ago that I had to continue. I've done the best I can. I'll try and post video's on here soon of me working up to heavy singles so you guys can pick me apart http://www.performancemenu.com/forum...cons/icon7.gif
Luckily, while box squats and reverse hypers and sled pulls are awesome, they are not totally and completely necessary. Westside's a template, so you can pretty much incorporate whatever you like into it. For instance, for your ME squats, you could do back squats, front squats, Zercher squats, overhead squats, back squats to a bench (instead of a box), pause back, front, overhead, Zercher squats, etc etc. Deadlifts are similarly malleables. Bands and chains are excellent additions, but your program isn't going to fail without them. I'm not using bands or chains in any of my ME or DE work yet, as I simply haven't reached the point where I feel I'm not making progress in my non-band, non-chain barbell movements.

I also do overhead work--press, push press, or jerks--on my DE or ME upper days instead of bench work.

For glute exercises, there are a ton you can do that aren't glute-ham raise or reverse-hyper dependent--sliding ham curls, barbell glute bridges, hip thrusts, single-leg hip thrusts, etc. Pull-throughs, a totally awesome exercise, can be done with cables if you don't have access to bands (and once those get too easy, bands on EliteFTS are less than $10 a piece, so you could get a heavy one to work with).

For programming, this is definitely not the "ideal" program, but this is what I do and have been able to recover from OK:

ME Lower:
Work up to heavy snatch single (Broz-style)
Do regular Westside ME Lower day

ME Upper:
Work up to heavy clean/C&J single (Broz-style)
Do regular Westside ME Upper day

DE Lower:
Work up to heavy power snatch single (Broz-style)
Regular DE Lower day--you wouldn't be able to do box squats, but could do free squats for your DE squats.

DE Upper:
Work up to heavy power C&J single (Broz-style)
Regular DE Upper day--using jerks or push-presses instead of speed bench (I use overhead presses, but that's because my OHP is disproportionately weak compared to my jerk and push press).



I mean, you can also throw in pull work on your dynamic lower days instead of deadlifts, stuff like that. Keep kind of an open mind about being flexible with the program.
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Old 12-11-2010, 07:09 PM   #28
Joshua Straiton
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Josh, where in college are you at?
I'm at UConn Brian. I'm actually going to try and get myself into the athletic gym, because I am very much an athlete and I'm sure I could utilize the olympic platforms just as well as any athlete in that gym. The student gym works, but my only olmpic bar is bent, and they yell at me when I drop weights (which I do anyway, and will continue to do until i'm kicked out). I might send the athletic director a letter.

And Emily, that is an awesome program, I like the programing. I do upper body strength work that I forgot to mention originally, push presses/jerks/pushups/pullups/MU's/ the works. Right now Im doing the CA russian squat cycle that just ended. I'm going to finish that and then I may use your basic template to introduce a background strength program to which I will start slowly adding metcons (not a ridiculous amount, I promise http://www.performancemenu.com/forum...ons/icon12.gif haha) But my goal is to compete and to do well in the games this year, for which I must be stronger. Strength is my priority at the moment, and I want to snatch 250 and clean and Jerk 300 by the times the games come around(if i qualify that is). But I very much appreciate the insight and I've been interested in the conjugate system for a while, and I will likely experiment with your template after this cycle is done.
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Old 12-11-2010, 07:14 PM   #29
Brian DeGennaro
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Petition for it, I know that's what I had to do here at Syracuse for it. It's very much worth it to lift in good facilities. The S&C coaches there aren't a bad bunch from what I have heard either. Where is home at for you?
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Old 12-11-2010, 07:25 PM   #30
Joshua Straiton
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Originally Posted by Brian DeGennaro View Post
Petition for it, I know that's what I had to do here at Syracuse for it. It's very much worth it to lift in good facilities. The S&C coaches there aren't a bad bunch from what I have heard either. Where is home at for you?
Home is Danbury CT, so I'm close. I'm actually an athletic training major, so I'll be dealing with some experienced people as I go through my years at UConn. I should try to petition for it, I'm just not exactly sure how to go about it, have any advice? How'd you do it?
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