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Old 01-17-2011, 08:23 AM   #21
Steve Shafley
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The number of awesome athletes who were built, from the ground up, from Crossfit is essentially zero.
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Old 01-17-2011, 08:31 AM
Andrew Wilson
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Old 01-17-2011, 08:45 AM   #22
Jacob Rowell
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It's not a matter of anyone distancing ourselves. We're affiliates - CrossFit is in the name, and I'm happy with that. What happens on the main page, in their message board, in here, and on IGX doesn't doesn't change the fact that CrossFit affiliates are largely autonomous and will do whatever they see fit. Their opinion on mainpage programming is almost as inconsequential as those within the message board bubble.

I started the thread with the hope (and thankfully some took it seriously) that instead of a few people whining about the mainsite and vowing to stop it all costs, some intelligent folks with experience in injury prevention would provide some insight to those who might listen - the many affiliates who I'm sure browse these boards.

But thanks for the witty comment Andrew.
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Old 01-17-2011, 09:02 AM
Justin Arnold
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Old 01-17-2011, 09:08 AM
Andrew Wilson
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Old 01-17-2011, 09:11 AM
Andrew Wilson
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Old 01-17-2011, 09:14 AM   #23
Arien Malec
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Jacob, I think you got the feedback you were looking for, in good faith, with a minimum of sideswipes.

However, you are using Crossfit for branding and lead generation but not for programming. But the way that Crossfit has enforced its brand is through harassment and vilification of people who have tried to improve mainsite programming or have helpfully critiqued mainsite programming and exercise selection. You don't feel just a tiny bit squeamish over branding that is associated with:

1) Programming that is outright harmful
2) Character assassination and/or expulsion of those who have tried to improve the programming to be better and less harmful

??
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Old 01-17-2011, 09:16 AM   #24
Justin Arnold
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"...if you donít follow the plan, youíre only a shell of what you could be."

This smacks of the general principles of HQ.

Who says the client doesn't have a BETTER plan?
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Old 01-17-2011, 09:40 AM   #25
Jacob Rowell
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I'm missing the point. Is it that we do CrossFit? Never argued otherwise.

Autonomy means that we're able to do as we see fit. For some affiliates, that will work out well, for others, not so much. Being autonomous does not mean doing something completely different than mainsite programming.

If you look, I'm sure you can find much more very public "dirt". Bad front squat rack positions. We also throw in a long chipper on occasion. One month, we played around with some mountain athlete programming - talk about volume!

Arien, I'm extremely thankful for those that gave thoughtful/helpful responses. Unfortunately though, this thread is moving back to the standard fare.

You make a very good point. However, my affiliation with CrossFit has allowed me to do a great deal of good for many people, people I would not have otherwise reached. Should affiliates give that up because they don't agree with everything HQ? And, while not day to day mainsite, Andrew has already pointed out that we use mainsite workouts. Again, we get to operate outside of what happens on the internet for the most part, and it's been a good relationship with HQ so far.
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Old 01-17-2011, 09:42 AM
Chris Butler
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Old 01-17-2011, 09:45 AM   #26
Wayne Riddle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Wilson View Post
So basically,
You all are distancing yourselves from CrossFit.com and other affiliates,
Because they're hurting people, using terrible, irresponsible workouts to train people,
While you still use those same workouts.

Makes a lot of sense.
And sending CFHQ a nice check too.
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Old 01-17-2011, 09:49 AM   #27
Wayne Riddle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob Rowell View Post
Again, we get to operate outside of what happens on the internet for the most part, and it's been a good relationship with HQ so far.
And that relationship is pretty much you send CFHQ money and you get to say you are an affiliate?
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Old 01-17-2011, 09:49 AM   #28
Jacob Rowell
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Justin, that's just part of the business model. People come to affiliates for direction. If people don't want direction, I recommend other gyms. If someone doesn't want to run, and would say, prefer to roll through 5-3-1 for awhile, I'd recommend the awesome PL/SM place nearby. It's cheaper and better suits their needs. If they have very specific goals, for a few I write specific programming. Sorry if my hyperbole "smacks of HQ".

I think we can agree that any thoughtful plan (maybe we won't agree that my programming is thoughtful?) is better than not running and expecting run times to improve?
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Old 01-17-2011, 09:52 AM
Andrew Wilson
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Old 01-17-2011, 09:56 AM   #29
Jacob Rowell
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayne Riddle View Post
And that relationship is pretty much you send CFHQ money and you get to say you are an affiliate?
Didn't think that was a secret. We license the name, if that's the question.
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Old 01-17-2011, 10:04 AM
Andrew Wilson
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Old 01-17-2011, 10:07 AM   #30
Jacob Rowell
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Andrew, I've got no doubt that armed with a little Verkoshansky, Zatsiosky, and Siff by your side, you will duel me quite effortlessly on any response I have. I've seen incredible progress from many, many people, whether by CrossFit's definition or yours. Any injury is too many, and I admit to mine and only wish to improve, and only disagree that injuries can only be prevented entirely outside of the context of CrossFit.

For me, it's a moot point, and an argument I don't care to participate in. You win.

How'd we get to arguing anyways? It started out so nice...
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