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Old 03-30-2011, 02:17 PM   #1
Ian Mathias
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Default Training Program Dilemma...

I have recently been doing the 531 program and have been getting good gains which I'm obviously happy about. The problem that has arisen is I am about to start my pre season training for Rugby League - as this is an American site I will post a needs analysis for those who don't know what Rugby League is - and think that the balls out effort 4x a week plus the 2 training sessions a week (Tue and Thurs) will quickly send me verging on over-training. I was just wondering what a few people think of organising training around a collision based sport. I still want to focus on getting stronger so main aim is Strength. Looking for something like
M - Heavy Lower
T - Light Upper - Training
W - Medium Lower & Upper
T - Heavy Upper - Training
F - Light lower
S - Will eventually be game day so maybe do some H.I.I.T
S- REST!!!!

I am currently learning the Olympic lifts and plan to integrate them as soon as I am capable of demonstrating quality consistent technique. Any tips, thoughts etc would be useful
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Old 03-30-2011, 05:10 PM   #2
Kevin Perry
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You can move your training to two days per week if you still want to follow 5/3/1 and make rugby your focus. You can still build strength on 2 days a week and lower volume which will allow better recovery between sessions. You can do 2 main lifts per day or even 1 lift per day spread across 2 weeks which might be better if you want to incorporate the Olympic lifts. My 2 cents.
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Old 03-30-2011, 06:59 PM   #3
Derek Weaver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian Mathias View Post
I have recently been doing the 531 program and have been getting good gains which I'm obviously happy about. The problem that has arisen is I am about to start my pre season training for Rugby League - as this is an American site I will post a needs analysis for those who don't know what Rugby League is - and think that the balls out effort 4x a week plus the 2 training sessions a week (Tue and Thurs) will quickly send me verging on over-training. I was just wondering what a few people think of organising training around a collision based sport. I still want to focus on getting stronger so main aim is Strength. Looking for something like
M - Heavy Lower
T - Light Upper - Training
W - Medium Lower & Upper
T - Heavy Upper - Training
F - Light lower
S - Will eventually be game day so maybe do some H.I.I.T
S- REST!!!!

I am currently learning the Olympic lifts and plan to integrate them as soon as I am capable of demonstrating quality consistent technique. Any tips, thoughts etc would be useful
What does your actual preseason rugby schedule look like?

I played Union, but can still offer some insight.
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Old 03-31-2011, 02:37 AM   #4
James Evans
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Do you need the third lower day? I presume your legs are going to get hammered during team training. I would certainly suggest moving to 2 per week during season.

Accepting that positional requirements are bit more interchangeable in League where do you play?
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Old 03-31-2011, 05:48 AM   #5
John P. Walsh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian Mathias View Post
I have recently been doing the 531 program and have been getting good gains which I'm obviously happy about. The problem that has arisen is I am about to start my pre season training for Rugby League - as this is an American site I will post a needs analysis for those who don't know what Rugby League is - and think that the balls out effort 4x a week plus the 2 training sessions a week (Tue and Thurs) will quickly send me verging on over-training. I was just wondering what a few people think of organising training around a collision based sport. I still want to focus on getting stronger so main aim is Strength. Looking for something like
M - Heavy Lower
T - Light Upper - Training
W - Medium Lower & Upper
T - Heavy Upper - Training
F - Light lower
S - Will eventually be game day so maybe do some H.I.I.T
S- REST!!!!

I am currently learning the Olympic lifts and plan to integrate them as soon as I am capable of demonstrating quality consistent technique. Any tips, thoughts etc would be useful
I guess rugby players are like football (American) players. You do too much. Two or three days a week is enough. Forget the light workouts. I would think that rugby training with 2 days or lifting wouldd be more than enough.
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Old 03-31-2011, 10:34 AM   #6
Dave Van Skike
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I agree with John. Too much bullshit. Start with two days in the gym see how you feel, then go to three if you need. Replace light days with walking, stretching and cooking your meals for the week. Efforts to turn down your overall stress level will pay off more than a compulsory "light" day in the gym.
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Old 04-02-2011, 02:02 AM   #7
Ian Mathias
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek Weaver View Post
What does your actual preseason rugby schedule look like?

I played Union, but can still offer some insight.
Pre season is 6 weeks training Tuesdays and Thursdays. 90 min sessions - playing centre

Quote:
Originally Posted by James Evans View Post
Do you need the third lower day? I presume your legs are going to get hammered during team training. I would certainly suggest moving to 2 per week during season.

Accepting that positional requirements are bit more interchangeable in League where do you play?
I think this is the way I'm gunna probaly go - Two full body sessions per week and dedicate a light day to learning OL technique with recovery work

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Van Skike View Post
I agree with John. Too much bullshit. Start with two days in the gym see how you feel, then go to three if you need. Replace light days with walking, stretching and cooking your meals for the week. Efforts to turn down your overall stress level will pay off more than a compulsory "light" day in the gym.
Thanks very much - didn't really consider stress levels.

All post are gratefully received. I was thinking of including squats, G/H raises, Bench and Chins twice a week - Training days were going to be monday and Wednesday with Monday slightly heavier. Would 3x5 @ 80-5% for squats and BP enough or too much volume/intensity? On Fridays I will continue to try and learn the OL lifts and this will be all technique work with nothing heavier than 20kg.
Any other responses will be appreciated
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Old 04-02-2011, 02:03 AM   #8
Ian Mathias
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Originally Posted by Kevin Perry View Post
You can move your training to two days per week if you still want to follow 5/3/1 and make rugby your focus. You can still build strength on 2 days a week and lower volume which will allow better recovery between sessions. You can do 2 main lifts per day or even 1 lift per day spread across 2 weeks which might be better if you want to incorporate the Olympic lifts. My 2 cents.
I believe this would work but am looking for a change from 5 3 1 but thanks for the reply
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Old 04-02-2011, 05:30 AM   #9
Gareth Rees
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If these guys hadn't suggested 2 training sessions, then that's what I was going to say. I'd say this is a very powerlifting biased template, not sport. So as everybody has already said what I was going to, I'll do what they haven't and suggest a template to put it all together. This is how I'd maybe do it, not put too much thought into it, so maybe somebody elso could expand on it, or you could correct and finalise it yourself.

(Written as a training week from start to finish, not a calendar week)

SA - Speed / Strength work
SU - Rest
M - Strength work
TU - Rugby Training
W - Recovery work
TH - Rugby Training
F - Rest

It would look something like this;

Saturday
Short sprints/jumps/ideally cleans or pulls depending on how technically sound you are (also work on your O-lifting technique as a warm up)
Squats - 90%, 2 reps x 4
Push Press - 3 reps x 4

Monday
Squats - 80-83%, 5 reps x 5
Bench Press - 80-83%, 5 reps x 5
Pull Ups - 4 x max
GHR's - 6 reps x 3

Wednesday
If you have access to a pool, get in it, and throw in some cold showers and static stretching. If you don't, lightly walk, cycle, row and throw in some bodyweight or very light exercises. Active recovery is better than complete rest.

My thinking behind this..... Speed, power and technique work always to be done first when most fresh. This is why you've got a day off on Friday, and this is the focus of your first training day after rugby training. As you want to gain strength as a main focus, you have some strength work at the end of the session. Rest on Sunday to recover. Monday you have your strength focused session. Endurance work (which is what I'll be taking your rugby sessions as) is always done last, thus after your strength work. Wednesday is to help you recover from Tuesday so that you're not too tired for Thursday's session, and getting more fatigued on top of already existing fatigue, as this will screw with your Saturday sessions. i don't think you need any HIIT training as you'll be getting specific conditioning from you training sessions

This may be a controversial opinion, but if you're not a starter, it may be an idea to sack off your Thursday session when game days have come, so that you don't have to drop a gym session, as otherwise you will probably be over-working your body. If not, you may have to drop to one heavy, and one light session, and this will obviously not build on your strength levels.

Just my views...
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Old 04-08-2011, 05:39 AM   #10
James Evans
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I think Gareth's outline looks pretty good.

Don't forget the speedwork. I always hated sprint training, not because it hurt but because I found it cold blooded and boring.
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