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Old 06-27-2011, 08:24 PM   #1
Collin O'Neill
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Another frequency question here.

I recently started training BJJ and Kickboxing, after training karate for two years. At the same time, I transitioned from :

4 day a week program of 5/3/1 (squatting 2-3 times a week, DL 1 time a week, pressing 2 times a week, and benching once), and going to karate two times a week.

To:

a madcow intermediate program 3 days a week (squat 3 times, DL once, press twice, bench once) and going to BJJ two times a week (2 hour classes) and kickboxing/striking two times a week (1.5 hour classes).

The new classes are what I was looking for in several respects, but part of it is I am worrying I am doing too much. I have already cut all metcons/cardio work except for one day a week out of my workouts, and I used to do three days 10-25 minutes. I have also cut out any accessory work except for pullups, pushups, dips, and ab work as needed. Generally quick stuff two times a week after lifting.

My question is will my body get used to the extra exertion? It has been 3ish weeks since I have started, and depending on the class, I may be pretty sore after. I eat a lot and try to get enough sleep. I also do mobility work pretty much every night. Should I look at cutting a day of lifting out a week, or will the body adapt?

I know more info would be useful, so if I am leaving anything out, ask.

Thanks for the input.
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Old 06-28-2011, 09:00 PM   #2
Joe Hart
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What is your goal? Strength, martial arts? Joel Jameson recommends two weight lifting work outs a week, hitting big exercises. He also recommends conditioning 2-3times a week if you are not training and work the conditioning with MA drills and what not.

It would help to know the usual stats. Age weight stuff like that. If you are a young buck you can get away with a lot more than some one 40 like me. I have to plan more and sleep more and eat more. If my kids let me.
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Old 06-29-2011, 05:58 AM   #3
Collin O'Neill
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My goal is to get stronger while at the same time getting better at kickboxing and BJJ. Simple, right?



I am 26 years old, 5' 9", 185lbs.
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Old 06-30-2011, 07:20 AM   #4
Derek Simonds
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Greg and I had a great conversation at band camp once... Well not band camp but his CA Coaching Certification and the jist of it was simple. Do you want to be a weightlifter who does BJJ or BJJ player who athletically lifts weight?

It is hard to be all things all the time. I personally am a lot older and will go through periods of really hard BJJ with less lifting and heavier lifting with less BJJ.

No real answer here just a thought starter. Ultimately you should do what your body can handle. If you can handle heavier lifting and the training you need to become the martial artist you want go for it. If you do it and crash you might need to revisit the schedule.

Best of luck, BJJ is a great sport.
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Old 06-30-2011, 07:21 AM   #5
Derek Simonds
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Hart View Post
If you are a young buck you can get away with a lot more than some one 40 like me. I have to plan more and sleep more and eat more. If my kids let me.
Amen to that Joe!
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Old 06-30-2011, 12:39 PM   #6
Blair Lowe
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I have been finding 531 pretty easy to recover from, well the lower body work. Generally the next day I'll find I have all my power in my tumbling accessible whereas I thought and expected to be utter shite in explosiveness the day after squats or deads.

I'm going on 33 and my maxes were 315 and 350 earlier this year though I'm working off higher maxes now. 5' 170.
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Old 06-30-2011, 04:52 PM   #7
Derek Weaver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek Simonds View Post
Greg and I had a great conversation at band camp once... Well not band camp but his CA Coaching Certification and the jist of it was simple. Do you want to be a weightlifter who does BJJ or BJJ player who athletically lifts weight?

It is hard to be all things all the time. I personally am a lot older and will go through periods of really hard BJJ with less lifting and heavier lifting with less BJJ.

No real answer here just a thought starter. Ultimately you should do what your body can handle. If you can handle heavier lifting and the training you need to become the martial artist you want go for it. If you do it and crash you might need to revisit the schedule.

Best of luck, BJJ is a great sport.
Word. Yin and Yang in everything. You need to look at things from a few different ways.

One is that you can be strong as hell and a beast in the weight room, or you can be conditioned well and stronger than most people you will roll with and clinch up with.

What kind of aerobic base have you got right now? The reason I ask is that someone like Derek S. could probably get away with more lifting, and let the class work take over for conditioning because he was, IIRC, into triathlons or something (correct me if I am wrong, Derek). Someone who goes from powerlifting into these sports may do well to reduce the lifting a touch, and work on building an aerobic base.

Look at Joel Jamieson's book for why this is so, and how to do it.

And keep your chin tucked.
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Old 07-05-2011, 05:58 AM   #8
Collin O'Neill
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek Weaver View Post
Word. Yin and Yang in everything. You need to look at things from a few different ways.

One is that you can be strong as hell and a beast in the weight room, or you can be conditioned well and stronger than most people you will roll with and clinch up with.

What kind of aerobic base have you got right now? The reason I ask is that someone like Derek S. could probably get away with more lifting, and let the class work take over for conditioning because he was, IIRC, into triathlons or something (correct me if I am wrong, Derek). Someone who goes from powerlifting into these sports may do well to reduce the lifting a touch, and work on building an aerobic base.

Look at Joel Jamieson's book for why this is so, and how to do it.

And keep your chin tucked.
My aerobic base is pretty damn good from all the bagwork and tabata stuff I had been doing for the past year. That is actually why I can hang with some of the guys (sometimes, only defensively) who have been there for a year or so, because I don't gas out quick.

The classes, especially the kickboxing, are intense enough that I have reduced any other cardio work to one day a week.

I appreciate the input Derek. As to your other post, I agree that I need to "decide what I am", but that leaves me wondering what I should expect and shoot for in terms of increases if I still try to do the maddog intermediate program?

Should I just listen to my body, and if it feels like I need to repeat a week or take a deload week, do so?
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Old 07-05-2011, 03:35 PM   #9
Derek Weaver
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Gant, if he checks back in here, would be able to answer better than I could on how to blend a solid lifting plan in with any sort of combat sport. I actually improved, and gained a lot of punching power, when I stopped lifting. now I lift again, and the power is coming back, but I'm still a bit tight. I also now workout on my own and tend to nurse hand bruises every week or so. Of course, YMMV.

Regarding doing a madcow intermediate plan with all of the other stuff: I would think some sort of auto regulated, RPE set up like Mike Touscherer (SP?) has set up in RTS would make more sense. I've only glimpsed what he does, but it seems that people do pretty good with something like this. Eduardo Chile's training log includes RTS PL stuff along with BJJ. You should check that out too.

Also, you would be surprised at how poorly Tabatas and 'metcons' will prepare you. Fighters run. They do road work, and they rarely do metabolic circuits. In order to go long, you need to go long.

How many days per week are you now training on the mats?
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And if you don't think kettleball squat cleans are difficult, I say, step up to the med-ball
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Old 07-05-2011, 05:54 PM   #10
Collin O'Neill
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek Weaver View Post
Gant, if he checks back in here, would be able to answer better than I could on how to blend a solid lifting plan in with any sort of combat sport. I actually improved, and gained a lot of punching power, when I stopped lifting. now I lift again, and the power is coming back, but I'm still a bit tight. I also now workout on my own and tend to nurse hand bruises every week or so. Of course, YMMV.

Regarding doing a madcow intermediate plan with all of the other stuff: I would think some sort of auto regulated, RPE set up like Mike Touscherer (SP?) has set up in RTS would make more sense. I've only glimpsed what he does, but it seems that people do pretty good with something like this. Eduardo Chile's training log includes RTS PL stuff along with BJJ. You should check that out too.

Also, you would be surprised at how poorly Tabatas and 'metcons' will prepare you. Fighters run. They do road work, and they rarely do metabolic circuits. In order to go long, you need to go long.

How many days per week are you now training on the mats?
I am training two to three days on the mats, with two to three days striking. One day overlaps with both, so a total of four in the dojo, and three in the gym. I am leaving myself one true off day where I don't hit the gym or dojo.

I wasn't doing true metcons or tabatas, interval work would be a more appropriate term. I would do three to four three minute rounds with one minute rest on the heavy bag, focusing on technique, and then do three to six rounds of nothing but speed and power for one minute with thirty seconds of rest, and then move on to a couple of thirty second punchout drills.

Whatever I was doing, it worked, because I can hang in during some hellacious classes.

I will check out Chile's log. I am actually finding myself thinking that 5/3/1 would be a good fit too. I am not one who bounces around between programs often, and I just came off of 5/3/1 (before joining the new dojo) in order to make more progress lifting. I guess changing circumstances demand adaption though.
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