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Old 01-10-2008, 12:44 PM   #21
John Alston
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[quote=Ben Moskowitz;24436]
Newest edit:
If you think I should just delete this post, say so and I'll do it.

Delete it, it gave me a headache.

You're making neurotic upper-east-side females look healthy.
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Old 01-10-2008, 09:54 PM   #22
Ben Moskowitz
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[quote=John Alston;24531]
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Originally Posted by Ben Moskowitz View Post
You're making neurotic upper-east-side females look healthy.
True that. Too much, too much.

I just have one straightforward set of questions now.

If one was to go cyclic low-carb, would the carb-up day ideally occur on a rest day, or a training day? For a 5-on-2-off schedule, or a 3-1 schedule? Would you want to be slightly calorically restricted on that carb up if it was on a rest day or training day (as was delved into in some other thread... I can't find it now)

Here's some more gold... thought I would make a useful (re)post:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike ODonnell
5) Try carb timing. On my training days I try to get 75% of my carbs PWO in the form of complex and some simple carbs. I toy around too see how my body responds...blood sugar drops in the hours after, fat addition on the waist, etc. The rest of the day is more Protein+Veg+Fat. Maybe some Fruit in the AM too. Every day is different, but I usually see good results. Too many carbs at the wrong time just goes right to my waist as I know I have insulin resistance issues...but the PWO timeframe of 1-2hours seems to work well for me in maintaining leanness.
This is what I'm aiming for now, because I'm basically cooking all my meals. I might try CLC or MD for easier scheduling with school and stuff.

This is a good thread too (wfs):
Metabolic Diet and Me

Probably the biggest revelation is if you're using the Zone, you can just swap out carbs for 3x fat blocks on the fly in a Veg+Pro+Fat meal. Then you swap in the carbs in the PWO meal or on the carb-load day I guess, and dial out the fat. If I can manage to keep track of the numbers, this might be the easiest way. Although, it's probably best to lay down a routine of a certain number of blocks per meal, so I get a feel for how the swap in-out process happens in terms of what's on my plate.
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Old 01-11-2008, 08:46 AM   #23
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This is why I don't like the zone...people get too obsessed with numbers and blocks.

Protein+ComplexCarbs - post workout 1-2 hours (only on glycolitic training days, not ME)
Protein+Fruit - AM or preworkout if you feel bonked
Protein+Fat+Veggies - All other meals

Add in a carb up day if you feel you need it once a week. Go by how you feel, perform, and body composition....throw out all the other formulas. Spend that free time smelling some roses or taking a nice walk outside...that relaxation alone will lead to more muscle because your zone obsession is probably overstressing your system and cortisol levels.
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Old 01-11-2008, 03:41 PM   #24
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that zone obsession is probably overstressing your system and cortisol levels.
D*mn straight.
I think I'm going to Zone+Fitday for the next week or so, maybe more, just so I get the feel of what this high-fat, Paleo, veggie, cyclic-ish lifestyle feels like plate to plate and snack to snack.

I tried to jump into seat-of-the-pants mode, but I was still "Zoned out" in my head. This basically was like throwing all plans to the wind, and I couldn't wrap my mind around anything. It seems like most things (IF, dieting in general, Paleo, low-carb, doing WODs...) it's best to take the gradual approach.


I thought of another question. Since fat is a metabolically neutral macro supposedly, do you have to be so precise about balancing out how much you get per meal?
I mean, for the sake of argument, does
Meal 1@5x fat + Meal 2@5x fat = Meal 1@9x fat + Meal 2@1x fat
If the protein and carbs are the same for each?

I mean, I just felt like eating the Paleo pancakes this morning, and I was planning on saving a pancake for later to balance my fat throughout the day, but um.... they are so freaking good! Scarfed em all down, and entered fat bliss...
I mean, on the Zone it was like "ooh a whole 1.33 tsp of olive oil for my fat this meal, special!"
Now it's like "holy crap I am eating a 1/4 cup of almond butter." YES.


OOoh, and if I'm on a Strength/Power cycle with the sparse metcon thrown in, then CLC/MD is probably better suited then? With a PWO complex carbs for metcon if I feel like it I guess. So would the carb-up be best on a training day, or rest day, or just by feel? And what is the feeling of carb depletion?
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Old 01-11-2008, 03:49 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Ben Moskowitz View Post
I mean, for the sake of argument, does
Meal 1@5x fat + Meal 2@5x fat = Meal 1@9x fat + Meal 2@1x fat
Ummm....I don't know and don't care....eat how you feel....see how your body responds....thinking that individuals respond the same to one set equation is silly....that and real progress is made with random protocols...so have fun driving yourself insane with a set of rules based on maximum results from a randomized approach.

That and switch to decaf.....
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Old 01-11-2008, 06:21 PM   #26
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I get headaches reading this.
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Old 01-11-2008, 08:33 PM   #27
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I'm in agreement with Mike. Eat what you're hungry for.
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Old 01-11-2008, 09:52 PM   #28
Ben Moskowitz
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....that and real progress is made with random protocols...
Word. Enough, I'll just figure out what works for me. Sorry to clog the boards with useless BS, I have a lot of respect for you guys and this site and don't mean to foul it up.
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Old 02-08-2008, 09:27 AM   #29
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Well, I thought I would update a bit.

I've learned to chill out. I've learned that Zone dieting + crossfit-style psyching up, intensity and so forth can lead you down a dangerous road. The "Mental Strength" articles have been a great read. Plus other things... like books... and totally getting away from fitness. Having a life. Relaxing.

Sometimes, focusing on performance, body comp, or whatever isn't even worth it. You have to ask yourself, "why are you working out?" Hopefully the answer is "because it's fun." If not, time to take a breather.

Strangely enough (this is a hunch) you operate best not when focused on performance and "bringing it," but when your having fun.

The PMenu-intuitive-Zen approach has been sexy to me for a while, but I think I'm slowly actually getting there. It takes a while.


Ohh, and "bulking up" takes a retarded amount of food. Week to week. Don't make my mistake and go all 24hour window, squeeky clean, carb load, cyclic whatever. If you go out to dinner, you're obligated to eat a boatload, regardless of paleo-friendliness. Plus a gallon of milk.

I lost sight of the big picture by focusing intensely on minute details, for sure.
Hopefully I don't get too fat.... but I've learned not to even care.
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Old 02-08-2008, 09:51 AM   #30
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Life is so much more than what you look like, weight, lift, etc....just eat right to be healthy...exercise hard to enjoy what you do...and enjoy the journey daily...don't obsess over needing to look a certain way or get to a certain point....you can plan things the right way, you can learn how to make adjustments as you go for improved health, you can know what you love to do and in the long run you will get there if you do everything right in the first place consistently....otherwise the obsession part will never go away and you will always be left wanting more....that road only leads to depression and unhappiness.

When it really comes down to it....do it all for long term health (eating, exercise and lifestyle)...and you get everything that comes with it...lose fat, gain muscle, improved performance and a long happy life.
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