Home   |   Contact   |   Help

Get Our Newsletter
Sign up for our free newsletter to get training tips and stay up to date on Catalyst Athletics, and get a FREE issue of the Performance Menu journal.

Go Back   Catalyst Athletics Forums > Training > Fitness, Strength & CrossFit

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-17-2007, 06:47 PM   #11
-Ross Hunt
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 166
Default

What Chris says sounds reasonable. Why dumps plyos, explosive strength work, etcetera, on a bunch of guys who are already struggling to accomodate an increased training load with respect to jumping.





Even if what I just said made no sense whatsoever, clearly my robust and voluminously copius role of Basketball S+C success stories lends it credence.
-Ross Hunt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2007, 03:25 PM   #12
Motion MacIvor
New Member
 
Motion MacIvor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 25
Default

Hmmm Less reason for GPP out of season? I'm guessing that was a typo.

I totaly agree that eplosiveness would be worked on in the game and during standard practice. And no I would'nt load a bunch of plyos and o-lifting onto a bunch of guys who already had a tough schedule. The plyo and o-lifting coment was directed at the original post I was'nt thinking of a basket ball team when I wrote it.

The point I was trying to make with my poorly explained glib remark is that that option one is more sport specific to basket ball (which I see as a series of 2-5 second sprints with jumping followed by a period of jogging for position) than option two (which is a steady state grinder type of workout), and therefore that *type* training is more important during the season than option two. If I had to guess I would think that a standard practice looks more similar to option one than two.

My feeling is that option two looks nothing like a basket ball game at all. But I have to admit I have no experience with the sport. And my hunch is that a twenty minute long lactate bath would probably hurt vertical leap and overall explosiveness rather than help it.

Sitting here in front of my computer with no basketball experience at all. I will give you my arm chair opinion of how a basket ball team should be trained which might not be worth much.

In the pre season I would have the team work on max strength, option two type workouts, and LSD running. To give the players as broad base of strength, endurance and stamina as posible.

In the first month of the season I would switch to plyos, and a bit of o-lifting (mainly hang power cleans to minimise the chance for injury). This will slightly overload the players but that's the point for now because the playoffs are miles away.

After the first month I would stick to practices, games, and one day a week in the gym to maintain strength.

I would try to make the practices look like option one and as the season wears on I would make the intervals shorter and more intense with slightly longer rest periods.

The week before important games (whenever they are) I would reduce pratices to skills and strategy with a very minimal physical component to alow the players to rest up for the big game.

let me know what you think
Motion MacIvor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2007, 09:20 PM   #13
Chris Forbis
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Greenville, SC
Posts: 836
Default

In no way would I classify option 1 as being more sport specific to basketball than option 2. Yes, basketball players have more opportunity for recovery than soccer players, but it is nothing near complete recovery. Thus my leaning towards option 2. But still not at the point of lactate baths or anything. Maybe something between the two. There are rest breaks, but not anywhere near long enough to get complete recovery...
Chris Forbis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2007, 02:11 PM   #14
Robb Wolf
Senior Member
 
Robb Wolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,444
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike ODonnell View Post
Ok now taking the side of Option #1....Wouldn't Max effort rounds be more advantageous for the following:

- Option #2 is a continuous effort for say 20 min
- Option #1 is a all out effort interval training for 3-4min with 2-3min recovery (so not really training speed at 100meters or 20sec sprints)
- Option #2 has you going at perhaps a slower pace than you would apply in your sport therefore adapting more to the slower twitch muscle fibers
- Option #1 allows you to go more at a "race" pace...or above to increase conditioning
- Option #1 has more stimulus to increase more mitochondria output and VO2 max
- Option #2 is aerobic where as Option #1 has you on the anaerobic threshold while still in the glycolitic pathway

etc....essential does Option #2 have the same level of benefits of say jogging at some point? Also for Option #1 to be the most effective for both increased game speed and conditioning...how long does it need to be and how short do the rest periods need to be? Ex....3 min workout with 2 min rests.....1min workout with 1 min rests.....4 min workout with 1 min rests.....I know it may depend on the sport...but which protocol would you think to work better....a longer one like 2-3 minutes....or a tabata style with only 20-30sec work?

You could also argue for general fitness and fat loss which is better....I would still go with Option #1 for the metabolic disruption and recovery demands. Just thinking out loud....

I think I read a long time ago Robb had better client success with taking rounds of effort at 3min, add some rest...and then repeat vs the continuous format....Robb any feedback?
I've just found that the break allows for a higher intensity of effort over all. I don't think this is blunting the adaptation at all and it seems like it is a little less mentally gruelling. Managing the fatigue of a 5 minute round is quite a bit different from the fatigue of a 20 minute session. I think using the segmented method, but with ever shorter rest intervals is a nice way to improve the times in the continuous effort. This is similar to the approach in the CFJ for rowing a 7min 2K.
__________________
"Survival will be neither to the strongest of the species, nor to the most intelligent, but to those most adaptable to change."
C. Darwin

Robb's Blog
Robb Wolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2007, 06:53 PM   #15
Jonathan Owen
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 172
Default

I have never played hoop at an elite level, but played all the way through high school, and a little intramural in college. I think you need to take into account the style of your offense/defense. Is it Run-n-gun constant fast-break offense combined with straight man to man D? Or does your offense move through a really good big man, who can post up along with a zone defense(slow and methodical)? The same argument could be made for the individual player; as a guard my needs differ from a power forward or center. Personally I would agree with option 1 off-season, and then option 2 pre-season. I look back and wish i had something like option 2 to prepare mementally and physically for the games that were non-stop back and forth for 30 plus minutes.

just my 2
Jonathan Owen is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:41 AM.

Powered by vBulletin Version 3.6.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Subscribe to our Newsletter


Receive emails with training tips, news updates, events info, sale notifications and more.
ASK GREG

Submit your question to be answered by Greg Everett in the Performance Menu or on the website

Submit Your Question
WEIGHTLIFTING TEAM

Catalyst Athletics is a USA Weightlifting team of competitive Olympic-style weightlifters with multiple national team medals.

Read More
Olympic Weightlifting Book
Catalyst Athletics
Contact Us
About
Help
Newsletter
Products & Services
Gym
Store
Seminars
Weightlifting Team
Performance Menu
Magazine Home
Subscriber Login
Issues
Articles
Workouts
About the Program
Workout Archives
Exercise Demos
Text Only
Instructional Content
Exercise Demos
Video Gallery
Free Articles
Free Recipes
Resources
Recommended Books & DVDs
Olympic Weightlifting Guide
Discussion Forum
Weight Conversion Calculator