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Old 03-20-2007, 09:49 AM   #1
Jesse Woody
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Default Depression, sleep, diet, world domination, etc.

OK, so some background; I've bounced back and forth between Zone, CLC and "low-carb by the seat of my pants + post-workout carb-spike." All have worked well in the sense that I find them relatively easy to implement and haven't noticed performance decreases one way or the other. After weighing and measuring, I found the Zone super-easy, and I still think of food in the term of blocks whatever method I'm employing, which makes all of the others almost too easy.

The question lies here; I suffer from some pretty severe mood-swings, and with both my mom and sister diagnosed with bipolar disorder it seems to point towards a similar straits for myself. Not being a huge fan of drugs (took myself off of welbutrin at age 12) I have begun to research alternate routes. I read back over the chapter about mental disorders in "Lights Out!" and have recently ordered "Beyond Prozac" to figure this thing out, but the gist seems to be that regulating hormone levels is very important in steady brain chemistry. Of course, "Light's Out!" suggests seasonal low-carb, which can work with seasonal workouts. If I choose to go with a more constant work-load I wonder if CLC/post-workout spike or Zone would be more beneficial. Anybody have any experience with this?

It hit me in the head after this last bout of acting like an asshole that combining my injury (hard to keep positive with this alone) with pain medication, lack of sleep, reduced exercise and a steadily crappier diet by the day (attempting to gain mass, i.e. not so low carb) that all of this seems to make sense in the insulin/glucagon/seratonin/dopamine sense. If it takes seasonal workouts to fix it, it's better than ruining hoards of personal relationships, but off the top of my head the Zone seems to offer some benefits in the consistency of the prescription, i.e. regulated insulin levels over the long-term without any noticeable peaks or valleys.

Anyway, any help would be much appreciated.
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Old 03-20-2007, 10:20 AM   #2
Mike ODonnell
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#1 - I would say any diet higher in fat (vs carbs) would be beneficial to someone with mood swings issues.

#2 - I would look into DHA supplementation (the other half of omega 3s in Fish Oil) as fish oil is mostly EPA and less DHA....where you may find better results with higher DHA

#3 - I've found light or IF mornings to be more to enhance my mood as a big breakfast puts me into a brain fog

#4 - I'd personally put my vote in for low carb and pwo meals...

All this is of course something you have to tinker and play with.....now where did I put my copy of the Warrior Diet??
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Old 03-20-2007, 10:21 AM   #3
Dave Van Skike
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Jesse,

First the disclaimer, I'm not being glib here at all. I'm very serious. I would not fuck around with brain chemistry issues on your own. Clearly, you have a far above average ability to gauge your body's response to stimulus...drugs, food, increased rest, decreased rest. etc.

I would say, spend the energy you were going to put into figuring this out and start an exhausitive process of screening and interviewing experts, doctors, pyschologists, naturopaths or whomever to assist you in figuring this out.

PM me if you talk offline.
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Old 03-20-2007, 10:47 AM   #4
Yael Grauer
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I'd get beat up around here for mentioning homeopathy so will post a link instead. I'm pretty sure homeopathic lithium orotate has a money-back guarantee.

http://www.henriettesherbal.com/arch...pression2.html

I've also heard good things about "Stabilium 200" which is some kind of blue fish oil that was used by warriors hundreds of years ago when they were depressed after returning from battle. It's got some good research for fatigue, concentration, etc. but there's anecdotal evidence for other uses. http://www.springboard4health.com/no...c_fatigue.html

Worth a try?

(Insert requisite "see a doc and take whatever drugs they give you" disclaimer here.)
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Old 03-20-2007, 10:54 AM   #5
Robb Wolf
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Probably good advice on Dav's part. MOD hit some goodies too. All I'd add is gaining weight is a pain in the ass. Time, money. Perhaps just chase performance? I've been doing a 16 block Zone gig (5xfat) but with most of the carbs, ~8-10 blocks, post WO. Pretty similar to Berardis recommendation but like you I use blocks for the accounting. i bumped things up to 18 and then 20 blocks. Strength is going up....but I'm not feeling as good. Shocker!

Back to what Dave said...some outside help might be good...one thing that seems clear is a NORMALIZED sleep pattern is very important:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q..._uids=11893871

bipolar/mania has been treated with sleep deprivation oddly enough with some success in the short term however other health complications present eventually.
Take care Amigo! Call or email anytime.
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Old 03-20-2007, 11:04 AM   #6
Jesse Woody
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Default Thanks!

Thanks for the help. The only downside I find with the "find a doctor" path is twofold; 1. I spent quite a bit of time as a kid running from one therapist to the next, and as far as I can tell the only noticeable change came from various prescriptions (keep in mind...these weren't necessarily good changes, just noticeable.) I find it hard to take doctors that aren't fixing something physical seriously, though the naturopathic route might offer some hope there. 2. I have a tendency to max out my medical expense budget on various injuries...so that leaves little for gambling on the possibility of finding a good doctor. Luckily this last surgery has maxed out my deductible for the year (again...but new insurance) so if I can find a way to get a referral (damn you HMO's!) I might be able to make it work!

Robb, no doubt the sleep in mega-important, and it's the first big piece of the picture I'm taking care of. I'm trying to find some dark curtains (as I just moved from the country to the city and even the best blinds can't keep out that much light!) and have been trying ZMA to attempt to increase the quality of what sleep I can get. The problem there is that during the best of times 7-8 hours is an occasional possibility....everybody here knows how hard it is to implement the 9 hour plan with wife/job/kids.

Yael, good stuff. I've had some luck in the past from homeopathic remedies (for poison ivy...works like magic!) so I'll check it out!
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Old 03-20-2007, 11:19 AM   #7
Mike ODonnell
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Jesse,

I'd look into the whole EPA/DHA and depression/bipolar connection...I am sure there are alot of studies...also I would ask 2 things:

#1) What is your current level of fish oil
#2) What is your Overall level of fats and where do they come from

While Fish oil is important...it's only 1/2 of the equation...as if you do not get your AA (omega 6s) under control then fish oil may have little to no effect what so ever. Just thinking out loud.
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Old 03-20-2007, 11:33 AM   #8
Jesse Woody
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At the moment I take between 9 and 12g of fish oil (capsule form, so 9-12 caps) a day. With the average fish oil cap that I take, that gives me around 2g of EPA and 1.5g of DHA per-day. Fat intake is quite high. In Zone ratios it varies between 2 and 5x at each meal, mostly from added monounsaturated fat. Though it's not a great representation of where I am now (i.e. 16 block Zone strict w/2-5x fat) this link to my fitday page will give you an idea of the fat content of my diet:

http://fitday.com/WebFit/PublicJourn...er=gearsighted

The last time I was keeping track was during my mass phase, i.e. 4000-5000kcal, ~250-300g CHO/day, but the fat-content is relatively representative of an average day, such that 50-60% of daily calories is pretty regular for me. I'm not sure if it shows on my public profile, but the breakdown of fats looks to be around 45% mono, 30% saturated, 25% poly.
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Old 03-20-2007, 12:25 PM   #9
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From what I can see real quick:

- Your majority of Poly is sunflower seeds which are high in omega 6 http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-C00001-01c20p5.html

- 2g of EPA/DHA is below the minimal 3g/day Dr Sears recommends for normal people.....then it goes up...inflammation is more 6g/day.....neurological disorders rangs in the 10+g/day (might want to pick up The Inflammation Zone)

So what I see quickly is a strong imbalance of omega 6 to 3s, and you need to prob do the opposite of increasing Omega 3s and decreasing 6s....otherwise that 2g of EPA/DHA a day is probably having little to no effect in reversing any inflammation and improving mood and function.
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/art...z&artid=549076

Not too even mention the amount of AA that is inside your hot dogs and other high fatty meat....it's loaded with it...plus nitrates.....unless you are doing Grass Fed.....another huge imbalance for increased inflammation....
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Old 03-20-2007, 12:38 PM   #10
Jesse Woody
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...and that's why I posted here. Thanks Mike, I knew I had missed something. I'll update as I tweak these discrepancies a bit and will update the fitday postings with the changes. You guys rock!

I also just got an email from the grass-fed meat and raw dairy group in DC from a naturopathic therapist who will be giving cooking classes related to various subjects...weird timing
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