Home   |   Contact   |   Help

Get Our Newsletter
Sign up for our free newsletter to get training tips and stay up to date on Catalyst Athletics, and get a FREE issue of the Performance Menu journal.

Go Back   Catalyst Athletics Forums > Training > Fitness, Strength & CrossFit

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-27-2007, 06:49 AM   #1
James Evans
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: London
Posts: 594
Default Taking Shaf from 6 to 20 pullups in 6 weeks

This is a spin off from Shaf's 'Write me a program' thread and an up front big sorry if it's flogging a dead horse.

It was suggested improving from 6 to 20 pull ups in 6 weeks was a perfectly attainable goal. I'd like to know how you would train him for this.

Mike Boyle has an 8 week chin up progression that takes you from 1 chin to 5 chins in, er, 8 weeks. 14 pull ups for a trained, or even a detrained strength athlete in 6 weeks seems a lot.

Yes, I know, someone asks about pullups over at CrossFit every bloody day, I'm just interested because I thought Shaf's thread tailed off pretty quickly.
James Evans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2007, 08:25 AM   #2
Mike ODonnell
Senior Member
 
Mike ODonnell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,596
Default

I think 6 weeks is pretty long.....diet someone down (lose a little weight)...and have them do chinups of some variation everyday....jumping....GTG 1-3reps....weighted.....and that is an easily attainable goal in probably a month. Call me an optimist.....
__________________
Fitness Spotlight
The IF Life
Mike ODonnell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2007, 08:50 AM   #3
Rick Deckart
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 557
Default

I said from 6 to 15 is perfectly doable, although I didn't know his BW then. But just out of academic interest and assuming he would loose some weight during the time-span this how I would try to get there:

17 sessions (certainly not the best program, but for higher reps it works extremely well...):

1. 13 reps x 3 sets ; deloaded with a strong band attached to the bar
2. 13 reps x 5 sets ; deloaded with a strong band attached to the bar
3. 13 reps x 8 sets ; deloaded with a strong band attached to the bar
4. 13 reps x 11 sets ; deloaded with a strong band attached to the bar
5. 13 reps x 13 sets ; deloaded with a strong band attached to the bar
6. 12 reps x 5 sets ; deloaded with an average band attached to the bar
7. 12 reps x 8 sets ; deloaded with an average band attached to the bar
8. 12 reps x 10 sets ; deloaded with an average band attached to the bar
9. 12 reps x 12 sets ; deloaded with an average band attached to the bar
10. 11 reps x 5 sets ; deloaded with a small band attached to the bar
11. 11 reps x 8 sets ; deloaded with a small band attached to the bar
12. 11 reps x 11 sets ; deloaded with a small band attached to the bar
13. 10 reps x 5 sets
14. 10 reps x 10 sets
15. 9 reps x 9 sets; loaded with 5--7.5kg
16. 8 reps x 8 sets; loaded with 10--15kg
17. 7 reps x 7 sets; loaded with 15--22.5kg

Rest at least a day between sessions and two days after every minicycle. All pullups in strict fashion, no kipping. (Kipping pullups IMO wouldn't need six weeks...) I would very probably use a second excercise, supersetted with the pullups, say KB swings, same reps and sets or higher reps and same number of sets, say for example session 1--5: 16kg KB x 20 reps x 3--13 sets, session 6--9: 24kg x 18 reps x 5--12 sets, session 10--12: 32kg KB x 16 reps x 5--11 sets. After that drop the KB swings to get some sort of volume taper.

I will do something similar this autumn to try to get my sots press to a BW sotspress and btw also achieve an one arm chinup, although I may fail misserably... If the above template is not sufficient, wait at least a week, better more, and repeat with 20--25% more load but same template (although doing the full cycle again could bring him probably to 20--25 strict pullups).

I would bet money for donats, that is 20 bucks against one donat, that he could do 15 strict pullups after that routine and it would take a little less than six weeks. The whole thing is not my invention but it works extremely well in my experience (but I have to admit that I used it only for OHS so far, but with excellent results). And I would be curious to see if other people could get similar results with the template. While not difficult it is extremely monotonous and boring and you can't cope with much else...

Last edited by Rick Deckart : 03-27-2007 at 12:07 PM. Reason: added some thoughts...
Rick Deckart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2007, 09:47 AM   #4
Steve Shafley
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,285
Default

Sweet topic.

I'll be back on Saturday. I have to go to Chicago to inspect my new nephew.
Steve Shafley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2007, 10:04 AM   #5
Allen Yeh
Senior Member
 
Allen Yeh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 4,246
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Shafley View Post
Sweet topic.

I'll be back on Saturday. I have to go to Chicago to inspect my new nephew.
Spartan style?

(refers to 300...so if you haven't seen the movie..just disregard!)
__________________
"And for crying out loud. Don't go into the pain cave. I can't stress this enough. Your Totem Animal won't be in there to help you. You'll be on your own. The Pain Cave is for cowards.
Pain is your companion, don't go hide from it."
-Kelly Starrett
Allen Yeh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2007, 10:31 AM   #6
Pierre Auge
Senior Member
 
Pierre Auge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 529
Default

Steve,
yes I think it is pretty easily attainable with some effort!
__________________
NOTICE: Pierre Auge's opinions are subject to change at any time and without prior notice.

To give real service you must add something which cannot be bought or measured with money, and that is sincerity and integrity. - Douglas Adams
Pierre Auge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2007, 10:33 AM   #7
Mike ODonnell
Senior Member
 
Mike ODonnell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,596
Default

Solution...time, 5 minutes

Lower the bar.
__________________
Fitness Spotlight
The IF Life
Mike ODonnell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2007, 07:57 AM   #8
Pavel Saenz
New Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 6
Default

Peter what is the resting time between sets in your recommended program?
Thanks
Pavel Saenz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2007, 09:20 AM   #9
James Evans
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: London
Posts: 594
Default

Peter,

You did indeed say 15, at first. Dave mentioned 20 then thought more about the time frame. But you did later say 15-20.

And these are dead hangs. No kipping allowed. Because I say so.

I like your idea though. Do you reckon that is more efficient than:

1. 10 x 4
2. 10 x 5
3. 10 x 6
etc.

type progressions where you are just gradually increasing reps?

I was mulling this over in my head and using the comparison of achieving 20 reps in the press at a given weight when my current score was 5. Would I just lift the same weight again and again increasing the reps (hopefully) each time or would I decrease the load and build up? Probably the latter.

So if I wanted to press 60kg 20 times, I might do something like this

1. 45k x 20 x 3
2. 46k x 20 x 3
3. 47k x 20 x 3


But then I thought about press ups and there I would probably just increase reps from day to day. I really wouldn't make this too scientific at all.

MOD mentions GTG which might probably work well for Shaf. Rubbish for someone who works in a bank or office etc. and doesn't have all day access to a pull up bar. Every time he logs onto a forum he has to bang out some pullups.
James Evans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2007, 10:06 AM   #10
Rick Deckart
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 557
Default

Damn it, I forgot the latter post. Did I really say so? Well I know that I could do that in six weeks, but I am not at 6 reps in the pullups...

James,

I have tinkered with these derivates of the German Volume Protocol in the past and one session of the template above is a German Volume template (session 14: 10 reps x 10 sets with bodyweight). If I had to choose between your and my template I would choose mine (which really isn't mine) because a) I know it worked for me beyond my expectations (pathetic phrase but it's true) and b) because it is a lot more volume than your approach. And I am now a very very strong believer in volume based training. Not the answer for everything, not suited for everyone ,not applicable everytime, but extremely powerfull if applied with care. With you approach I would expect to hit a plateau VERY soon, unless you wave the reps somewhat but that is additional time you have to calculate into the program.

I intend to do my little program around autum, while I will use bands, I will use these to load the pullups. And I won't use KB swings but sotspresses as a second excercise in this template. I will report whatever the outcome of the experiment. AFAIK I am the only person I know of who finished the program (with the exception of John Bott through whom I first heard of it)

But do you believe Shaf would actually do one of those programs? I think he wouldn't use mine even if I paid him to do so LOL. It is that boring, GVT is nothing against it. Also I remember he once stated that he had very high doubts that such an approach could produce results like the results I reported.

So here is plan B for Shaf, very easy to include into your daily routine:
Do 2-3 sets of 20 pullups with plenty rest inbetween, use a strong band or any suitable combination of bands to deload the pullup. Do that daily, after one week switch to the next lower band and so forth. End of week six test pullups without bands.

Pavel, I used 90 seconds between sets, sometimes one min after the OHS I did and two minutes after the KB swings. But if one would need more time, no problem just rest longer.
Rick Deckart is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:29 AM.

Powered by vBulletin Version 3.6.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Subscribe to our Newsletter


Receive emails with training tips, news updates, events info, sale notifications and more.
ASK GREG

Submit your question to be answered by Greg Everett in the Performance Menu or on the website

Submit Your Question
WEIGHTLIFTING TEAM

Catalyst Athletics is a USA Weightlifting team of competitive Olympic-style weightlifters with multiple national team medals.

Read More
Olympic Weightlifting Book
Catalyst Athletics
Contact Us
About
Help
Newsletter
Products & Services
Gym
Store
Seminars
Weightlifting Team
Performance Menu
Magazine Home
Subscriber Login
Issues
Articles
Workouts
About the Program
Workout Archives
Exercise Demos
Text Only
Instructional Content
Exercise Demos
Video Gallery
Free Articles
Free Recipes
Resources
Recommended Books & DVDs
Olympic Weightlifting Guide
Discussion Forum
Weight Conversion Calculator