Eade's on PWO Nutrition

[Craig Cooper]

This may have already been covered before, but I was reading Eade's blog, and found some interesting info regarding PWO Nutrition. He was debunking a couple of exercise physiologists' debunking of the "Top 10 Nutrition Myths", and had this to say about PWO Nutrition:

"As you workout, you breakdown muscle tissue and release amino acids back into the amino acid pool. They are reharvested to repair the muscle as needed. But since part of the repair process is to make the muscle larger and/or more dense, extra amino acids are ultimately required. One of the things that stimulates the growth of muscle tissue is the growth hormone released during strenuous training. If you down a high-carb snack or drink immediately after your workout, it is adios growth hormone. Carbs basically shut off the release of this important hormone, so if you’re going to eat immediately after a workout, eat fat and protein. Fat and protein provide the immune support to heal the muscle and provide the raw materials for growth. Last time I checked there wasn’t a whole lot of carbohydrate in the muscle structure."

Complete Blog Entry

[Steve Liberati]

While I personally subscribe to the Eades/DeVaney school of thought on PWO, I think a good argument can be made from either side. Both sides essentially have science on their side. One favoring glycogen replenishment for maximum recovery and muscle gain, while other favoring maximum hormone regulation.
Overall, I think the best approach is found by catering your pwo meal to your goals and the intensity of your workout. An athlete practicing sport training hard, heavy, fast and frequent should make it priority to eat carbs/protein pwo. On the other hand, beginners or most regulars joes looking to improve health, body comp, performance, etc...can nix the pwo shake in favor of protein/fat meal and reap all the same benefits and then some....
I'm convinced these days...much of the lit and recommendations for carbs pwo is fueled by profits....just think "splurge." That stuff can't possibly be good for you!

[Mike ODonnell]

I've seen research to debunk that whole "carbs shut down GH" after exercise....I can't remember where....maybe DeVanny or someplace....but I really don't pay attention to it....if your goal is fat loss....you are better off not doing an immediate PWO and waiting...for performance I think pwo is key after glycolitic draining training....Robb can give all the details on who needs what in the latest PM....but it will all come down to personal fine tuning and seeing what works best as we have individualistic energy expenditures of fat/carb and different levels of insulin resistance/sensitivity......

[Neal Winkler]

Oh yeah, I was supposed to show Dr. Eades the studies that show PWO carb ingestion doesn't shut down GH. Forgot all about it.

[Gittit Shwartz]

Just an observation: personally, after 2 hours' intensive training (Capoeira) and sweating copiously, what I really crave is water...and salt! It's hard to tell whether it makes a difference in the long run, eating whole foods or whey protein, immediately or an hour after training, but i find the salt I put in it (in my chocolate whey protein powder too) is what makes the difference between crashing 10 minutes later or being good for another hour of fooling around. My post workout drink of choice would be pickle juice! I'm guessing i need to replenish the sodium I sweat out - experts?

[Mike ODonnell]

Originally Posted by Neal Winkler

Oh yeah, I was supposed to show Dr. Eades the studies that show PWO carb ingestion doesn't shut down GH. Forgot all about it.

"In summary, these data indicate that consuming a nutritional supplement before and immediately after heavy-resistance training workouts performed over 3 consecutive days results in different exercise-induced patterns of metabolic and hormonal variables. Specifically, consuming a protein-carbohydrate supplement before and after a resistance training session increases the concentrations of glucose, insulin, growth hormone, and IGF-I while decreasing lactate accumulation. Such responses would be predicted to enhance glycogen and protein synthesis during recovery; however, this was not determined in this investigation. These responses were observed in a group of moderately resistance-trained men and may not apply to other populations (i.e., untrained individuals, women, etc.). These data demonstrate that protein-carbohydrate supplementation before and after training may alter the metabolic and hormonal responses to consecutive days of heavy-resistance exercise."
http://jap.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/85/4/1544

feel free to pass that along to him.........

[Robb Wolf]

MOD-

Good stuff. Does anyone know if protein, protein/fat has been studied in the pre-post WO scenario? I think I remember Dan John mentioning Tom Fahey found that ~20g protein pre WO caused the greatest increase in anabolic hormones.

Steve touched on this but I think it is important to note that different goals may necessitate different approaches. From personal experience the protein/fat post WO meal leaves me feeling great and it is easy to remain very lean...but I can not maintain lactate type crossfit WOD's very easily on that sched.

[Robb Wolf]

Originally Posted by Gittit Shwartz

Just an observation: personally, after 2 hours' intensive training (Capoeira) and sweating copiously, what I really crave is water...and salt! It's hard to tell whether it makes a difference in the long run, eating whole foods or whey protein, immediately or an hour after training, but i find the salt I put in it (in my chocolate whey protein powder too) is what makes the difference between crashing 10 minutes later or being good for another hour of fooling around. My post workout drink of choice would be pickle juice! I'm guessing i need to replenish the sodium I sweat out - experts?

Pickle Juice! You are a wild man! Gittit, you eat a pretty low carb paleo diet so you may not hang on to much sodium given the low insulin levels. If you feel an immediate improvement in performance that is pretty compelling.

[R. Alan Hester]

I have started drinking 8 oz of egg whites (from egg whites international purchased through Coach Rut’s Fitness Conduit) mixed with 1 table spoon of olive oil.

8 oz of egg whites =5 protein blocks
1 Tbsp of olive oil =9 fat blocks


It is a bit slimy, but very convenient.

[Gittit Shwartz]

Originally Posted by Robb Wolf

Pickle Juice! You are a wild man! Gittit, you eat a pretty low carb paleo diet so you may not hang on to much sodium given the low insulin levels. If you feel an immediate improvement in performance that is pretty compelling.

Robb, I'm a girl!
No worries though...