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Old 06-06-2007, 03:35 AM   #71
Allen Yeh
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Anyone?
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Old 06-06-2007, 05:01 AM   #72
Jeff Northrop
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In my opinion, if you are experiencing pain, then stop. You could trying running once a week and see if that reduces your volume enough to allow things to heal, but if it doesn't take a couple of weeks off, then try again. Once a week might suffice to maintain your current running level but you'd have to bring some intensity to that once a week. Twice a week with a reduced intensity my suit you (and your injury) better and still keep what you've gained.

Also, it might be a good time to reevaluate your running gait to see if you can improve something so you don't reinjure yourself.
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Old 06-06-2007, 07:05 AM   #73
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I would reduce the volume of running, down to maybe 2 times a week, perhaps reduce the volume and up the intensity. Then add a longer run every so often, say every 3-4 weeks. Be sure to throw in slightly longer intervals (3-6 minutes) every so often, running and rowing.

Maybe initially take 10 days off running so you are starting from a fresh sheet running wise.
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Old 06-06-2007, 05:51 PM   #74
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Hey guys. Long time lurker first time poster.

I have started using James' plan to prepare myself for BUD/s. I'm used to running intervals at regularly and I have been doing 4 sessions of the plan a week. I'm going to be through the 20 sessions in a couple of weeks.

James, what would you do next? I do not know as much about running as I do other things and I just wanted to see where you were heading with this so I could get some ideas.
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Old 06-07-2007, 08:29 AM   #75
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I'm away from home at the moment and I've just left my job too so not looking at the boards regularly.

Allen,

I like Josh's suggestion. Don't quit running totally, you need to keep your eye or you've just been wasting your time. I would also advise you go and see a specialist and sort out your knees and feet. Running is not easy for you and I think you should ascertain if there is any reason for this.

Matt,

there is a progression to this, in fact there are about 40-45 sessions in total. I need to get my notes at home to post them. The idea was to see how Allen coped with this and then post the progressions. How have you found it so far?
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Old 06-07-2007, 09:08 AM   #76
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Matt,

there is a progression to this, in fact there are about 40-45 sessions in total. I need to get my notes at home to post them. The idea was to see how Allen coped with this and then post the progressions. How have you found it so far?

James,

Before starting your sessions I was working on running mechanics (foot strikes, stride frequencies, etc) and doing intervals regularly. For the last ten weeks I was doing things like: 400mX6, 100mX10, 200mX8, 800m-700m-600m... all the way to 100m and back up, twice a week. I mixed in some longer runs like 3 miles at 80% of my 1 mile pace or 2 miles at 90%. I was very slow when I began and I am getting much faster.

Needless to say, I am a bit more used to the plodding than Allen is (but you'll get there, especially now that you have more time before OCS!) and the only thing that has been getting to me is running in my boots.

With my future career choice I will be running, sometimes, up to 20 miles a day and always running at least 6 in one day. Lotsa volume. Iím going to have to be able to run 4 miles in boots and on soft sand in under 32 minutes. I would like to do it somewhere between 27-29 minutes.

Was your plan heading in this direction? Can you necessarily train for volume like this? I liked your progressions and I want to continue when I am done with the 20 sessions. Anything you can give me will be a big help.
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Old 06-08-2007, 05:45 AM   #77
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Thanks for the replies guys, I was also opting for the not totally stopping thing too. In regards to seeing a specialist, my own problems will just have to wait until my wife's surgery is done and she is recovered.

Haven't had any extreme injuries, just foot pain and some knee pains, my right knee did get a little swollen last week which I thought was odd.
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Pain is your companion, don't go hide from it."
-Kelly Starrett
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Old 06-18-2007, 04:28 AM   #78
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Matt,

Not sure if I originally posted this but here's a little on the history of these progressions.

In 1999 I was running about 4 times a week off road with some serious climbs and covering between 5 and 11 miles on a run. I had finally managed to run a 15 minute climb that had always (mentally) beaten me 7 years previously when I had been at school. I was also cycling 14 miles 5 days a week, using weights in a fairly basic fashion, working outside, being active.

Then I moved back to London and started working in an office....

Coming back from a trip to Australia in 2001 I couldn't run for shit. I looked pretty fit but routes that I previously been comfortable with were just leaving me walking after ten minutes. So I decided to do something about it rather than the usual 'it's been 5 minutes, I feel like I'm about to die, running is obviously not for me'. So I mixed up runs that I was familiar with with the intervals I have suggested. As I have mentioned I think fartlek can be too undisciplined, I believe a mixture of set times and set distances are far more suitable, particularly if you make the targets manageable with a bit off effort on your part.

And for me it did the trick and got me back up within about 5 weeks, take part in races and record decent times without doing the very structured training that most distance athletes revel in and I think is just a brain mash. Now I obviously have an advantage over Allen because I spent my teens and early twenties running a lot so I have that background but I think with some personal tweaking it can work for anyone. And it is just a guideline. Adapt it as you see fit.

Furthermore, after periods of inactivity either as a result of work or illness I've gone back to it and Run 1 and started all over and it's done the trick again. I've gone through those progressions 5 or 6 time in 6 years and will probably do the same again this summer.

I think with some adjustments it can work for you although I appreciate that running in boots is a bitch. But 4 miles under 32 minutes is an obtainable target. I don't think we're looking at elite distance runner are we? A lot of this is mental as well. Knowing that you are capable, knowing that you can live with that pain and that your lungs really aren't going to burst.

I like your intervals. If you start to get stale with my stuff throw in some more intervals. I promise to post further progressions asap but here is a taster of a couple of advanced ones:

Choose a course that involves a mixture of ground, flat, short steep hill, slower gradual inclines.

Run 1 minute, walk 1 minute, run 2 minutes, walk 1 minute, run 3 minutes, walk 1 minute up to seven minutes of running then work your way back down from seven minutes to 1 minute.
Run as hard as you can for each interval. Seven minutes will never seem so long and one minute so short so the quality of the intervals will drop off and you will need to check your pace at some point. The idea is to manage a fast pace. Go hard, not balls to the wall.

This give you 56 minutes of hard work with 14 minutes of rest. You will cover far more ground than if you went and ran 56 minutes without stopping. This is a good brain bull as well.

Lamp post sprints with 9kg vest or rucksack. Jog out for minutes to warm up then for 20 minutes alternately sprint/walk between street lamps, trees etc. depending on the availability of your landmarks. For me these can be anything between 10 and 50 metres. This makes the distance and the recovery irregular. Which is a good thing. Go as hard as you can, balls to the wall. Some hills should be included if possible.

This one is hard on the knees so be careful.


Allen,

Fair enough, best wishes for your wife.
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Old 06-19-2007, 07:33 AM   #79
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Quote:
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I think with some adjustments it can work for you although I appreciate that running in boots is a bitch. But 4 miles under 32 minutes is an obtainable target. I don't think we're looking at elite distance runner are we? A lot of this is mental as well. Knowing that you are capable, knowing that you can live with that pain and that your lungs really aren't going to burst.

Youíre right, we are not looking at elite distances here. Just a lot of slow trudging back and forth between chow, conditioning runs in the sand, and the weekly 4 mile timed beach run in under 32 minutes. I do want to be competitive when I arrive there and I am looking for something to give me an edge.


Quote:
Originally Posted by James Evans View Post
Choose a course that involves a mixture of ground, flat, short steep hill, slower gradual inclines.

Run 1 minute, walk 1 minute, run 2 minutes, walk 1 minute, run 3 minutes, walk 1 minute up to seven minutes of running then work your way back down from seven minutes to 1 minute.
Run as hard as you can for each interval. Seven minutes will never seem so long and one minute so short so the quality of the intervals will drop off and you will need to check your pace at some point. The idea is to manage a fast pace. Go hard, not balls to the wall.

This give you 56 minutes of hard work with 14 minutes of rest. You will cover far more ground than if you went and ran 56 minutes without stopping. This is a good brain bull as well.

Lamp post sprints with 9kg vest or rucksack. Jog out for minutes to warm up then for 20 minutes alternately sprint/walk between street lamps, trees etc. depending on the availability of your landmarks. For me these can be anything between 10 and 50 metres. This makes the distance and the recovery irregular. Which is a good thing. Go as hard as you can, balls to the wall. Some hills should be included if possible.

This one is hard on the knees so be careful.
James, these new progressions look excellent. I am very interested in seeing more of your advanced sessions. Iím deferring primarily to you on this subject and when I get my bearings I will go ahead and put sessions of my own together.

But seriously, good work. These workouts are helping me a lot.
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Old 07-11-2007, 06:02 AM   #80
James Evans
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Ok, Iíve finally got my arse in gear and here are the further progressions. As before you will need to apply some creativity to how you adapt my suggestions and remember these are suggestions. You should make these runs personal to you, your abilities and your local geography.

For reference Iíve reproduced the first 20 sessions.


20 Sessions

1. 15 minute run. This can be a jog. Get out. Don't stop. 15 minutes that's it. Go home. No more jogging after this.

2. 1 min on, 1 min off, 30 minutes. You will run hard for a minute. Recover by walking for a minute. This will give you 15 minutes of work, 15 minutes of recovery. The pace should be around your 400 metre mark but really this about perceived exertion. I use a lot of these intervals. The aim is to push as hard as you can but never so hard that you get crushed and can't finish the whole session. If you don't feel great after a recovery drop your pace down a little for the next interval. BUT DON'T STOP!

3. 3 x 7 minutes, 3 minute recoveries. Obviously this will be slower than Run 2. This is a tough one so early on.

4. Benchmark A. For me this run is about 2 miles long. The first 5 minutes are a steep climb, then followed by about 4 minutes fairly flat ground, 2 minutes very fast descent and then two to three minutes of flat running to finish. For the first time aim to do this in about 17-18 minutes ie pace yourself heavily. If you don't have any hills and are just running 2 miles flat then make that 15-16 minutes. Record your time.

5. 2 mins on. 1 min off, 30 minutes. 20 minutes work, 10 minutes recovery.

6. 20 minutes - flat ground. Just a simple 20 minute run at a comfortable pace. At 20 minutes stop and walk home.

7. Benchmark A. Go for it this time and beat your score.

8. Benchmark B. Mine is a 5 minute climb, 15 minutes flat, 4-5 minute fast descent. I reckon it's about 3.9 miles. Time and record.

9. 5 mins on, 1 off, 30 mins. 25 minutes work. 5 minutes walk recovery. This hurts. Intervals 3 and 4 will be challenging.

10. 20 minutes at an even pace over mixed ground. A bit more fizz than on run 6 and mix the ground up a little so you're not just running flat. 20 minutes done, go home.

11. Benchmark C. This should be about 3 miles. 5 minutes on the flat, 5 minute gradual climb. 7 minutes flat. 4 minute descent. Make the last 15-16 minutes fast. Time and record.

12. 12.5 mins on, 3 mins off x 2. 25 minutes work, 6 minutes recovery. Don't overcook it.

13. Benchmark A. Beat your score.

14. 3 x 10 mins, 2 mins recovery. 30 minutes work. 6 minutes recovery. You should be feeling pretty strong on these and reluctant to stop at 10 minutes each time.

15. 25 minutes, mixed ground/mixed pace. Get a hill in there, push your speed right up, drop back down to a plod. No walking. 25 minutes done, go home.

16. 3 mins on, 1 min off, 40 mins. 30 minutes work, 10 minutes recovery.

17. Benchmark B. Time and record. Beat your score.

18. Benchmark A. Beat your score.

19. 30 minutes. Wherever your feet take you.

20. 15 mins on, 3 mins off x 2. Push out on these intervals.


Sessions 21 - 35

This takes thing on a stage, a few longer runs, a chance to beat some benchmark times and some different intervals

21. Benchmark C. Record and beat your time.

22. 20 minutes, mixed ground/pace. Vary the terrain (at least one hill) and push your pace from slow jog to hard running as you feel fit.

23. 1 minute on, 30 seconds off, 30 minutes. Go hard but the 30 second walk recoveries will go in a flash.This is 20 intervals/minutes of work.

24. Benchmark B. Record and beat your time.

25. Hill training. Warm up for 5-10 minutes with easy running. I use a climb that is about 150m in length and is challenging. The hill forms part of a street grid, ie a square of roughly equal sides. Run the climb as fast as you can. Jog very slowly across the top of the square. Run back down at a steady stride. Walk the bottom of the square. Repeat for 9 reps. Cool down with 15 minutes of steady running.

26. Planned Fartlek. I have mentioned before that I think Fartlek takes a lot of discipline. Plan an interval session in your head but donít be afraid to make adjustments if your feel fried. Mine is roughly like this: 5 minutes climb at a steady pace, then back down the hill by the fastest route, then back up by the most direct (but steepest) route. Recover for a minute or two with slow jogging and then run back down the original 5 minute climb at full tilt. Then run steady for a further 5-6 minutes. Next comes about 1000m of lamp post sprints (trees or other features will do). Sprint to the first one and then jog to the second and so on. I recover for about a minute (the time it takes me to cross a railway footbridge near my house) and then put in a further sprint for 100m. 5 further minutes of steady running follow before a final hard push of 2 minutes to home. Ok, the above takes some digesting but the idea is to plan something that keeps you working at a varied intensity (and remember hills are speedwork in a different guise) for 25-35 minutes. Be creative. With many of the runs I do, home is the end point of the run so I plan routes that bring around to that point and aim to push hard to the finish. With sessions that just say Run 30 minutes I make a rough estimate of where that will take me and then aim to get to as close to home as possible before time runs out.

27. Take Bench Mark C but add a 10 minute loop to the route roughly in the middle of the run. This doesnít need to be challenging terrain.

28. 5 mins on, 1 minute off, 42 minutes.

29. Bench Mark B but vary the first 10 minutes of the run (ie change your route)

30. Benchmark A. Record and beat your time.

31. 30 minutes. Run wherever your feet take you.

32. 2 minutes on, 1 minute off, 30 minutes. Hard running.

33. Benchmark C. Record and beat your score.

34. 20 minutes on, 5 minutes off, x 2.

35. Using the template of R27, now add 10 minutes to run near the end of the route, preferably involving a nasty climb. So, your five minutes from your usual finish, run in a different direction for five minutes out and then five minute back and then continue.


Sessions 36 - 50

Some of these are nasty and I would apply some caution. Go out and run a trail and see how long you can go for, you donít to bust a gut. I would have thought that an hour of gentle running would be perfectly possible by this stage.

36. 1 minute on, 1 minute off, 1 hour. Get plenty of hills in here and run hard. This is only 30 minutes of work.

37. 1 minute on, 1 minute off, 2 minutes on, 1 minute off up to seven minutes. Then sevens minutes on, 1 minute off, back down to 1 minute of work. 56 minutes of running with 14 minutes of rest. Get some hills, push your efforts. This can be hellish.

38. Queen of the Hill. There are supposedly seven hills near my house (it looks like one to me) and I originally pinched the idea off a local running club for a method of getting relatively testing climbing work in on my mountain bike. Along a stretch of about 1.5 miles there are 10 parallel streets running up these hills and the start of nearly all my runs takes in one of these. I live about half way along the bottom with 5 mins of running taking me in either direction. Each hill takes 5 minutes to run up, less to run down. I run the five minutes to the start and then run up the first street, down the second and so on until I reach the end and then run the 5 minutes to home. This approximately 5 miles and I donít like it much. Play around with this. You could just find a steep climb, warm up and then run up and down it 5 times although that could prove rather dull.

39. 35 minute trail run. Make sure you include some climbs. Choose a circular route.

40. 35 minute trail run. Reverse the direction of R39.

41. 45 minute road/trail run. Wear a light rucksack for this one just to make things interesting. Mix the route up a bit, grass, trails, man made surfaces etc.

42. King of the Hill. This hell, an utter grind. Itís R38 run in both directions and measure on my bike is exactly 10 miles. I think 10 reps on the same hill will probably mash your brain up. Good luck.

43. 30 minutes gentle running. Use this as a recovery session.

44. Benchmark A. Record and beat your time.

45. 40 minute trail run. Get some climbs in.

46. Hill work. Find a climb that takes about 3-4 minutes to run. Climb hard, jog back down x 5.

47. Reverse the direction of your Benchmark A.

48. 45 minutes, steady running. Nothing too challenging.

49. 4 minutes on, 2 minutes off, 60 minutes.

50. 1.5 mile timed run. Go hell for leather and aim to get at least below 10 minutes. A flat course is best.

Ok, so there you are. Iím afraid a bit of planning is needed to adapt these to your own situation but the aim is to make it suitable for your individual needs and to give you some ideas to work with. I can run some of these for 5 days at a time but the later runs will need some recovery time despite increased levels of running fitness.
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