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Old 04-26-2007, 07:38 AM   #1
kevin mckay
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Default The dark side of cr

Interesting article

http://www.slate.com/id/2164436/entry/2164437/
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Old 04-27-2007, 12:56 PM   #2
-Ross Hunt
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There has always been something psychologically unhealthy in all dietary regimens that revolve around self-denial. There's a sort of desire to feel that one has elevated oneself by taking a peculiar sort of self-denial (of whatever-- meat, carbohydrates, or, lately, simply calories ) as an end in itself.

Long before Nietzsche, Montesquieu said of monks that they cling to the denial of their passions with at least as much force as those passions themselves would have if they were given free reign. Apparently it's no longer fashionable to mortify one's flesh for the sake of eternal life, but the doctors assure us that to do so in the name of the partial extension of one's mortal life and a longer old age is to be praised.

Progress!
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Old 04-27-2007, 05:02 PM   #3
Neal Winkler
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Not only do people that practice chronic CR have an eating disorder, they also have another disorder called BEING REALLY REALLY ILLOGICAL (I.E. DUMB).

Why, why, why chronic CR when you could IF? It makes no sense!!! Gaaa!!!
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Old 04-27-2007, 06:43 PM   #4
Jeremy Shepard
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neal Winkler View Post
Not only do people that practice chronic CR have an eating disorder, they also have another disorder called BEING REALLY REALLY ILLOGICAL (I.E. DUMB).
Doubtful. Some of the most in-depth referenced discussions I've ever come across on the internet have been with CR practitioners via CR Society Mailing List, sci.life-extension, etc. They may or may not be correct, and may have slight biases, but many have done their homework.
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Old 04-27-2007, 09:54 PM   #5
Neal Winkler
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Then I stand corrected. What are their reasons for why IF isn't better than chronic CR?
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Old 04-28-2007, 11:37 AM   #6
Jeremy Shepard
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Mostly the argument is whether or not IF can actually extend the average life of a given population to that species max LS. I haven't seen any discussions refuting the health benefits of IF. It usually boils down to an argument over the chief cause of aging in humans/mammals vs. other species.
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Old 04-28-2007, 04:26 PM   #7
Neal Winkler
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Something about CR seems to work through decreasing damage (oxidation ect.), whereas IF works through improving resistance to damage. Something like that.

Since the only evidence that CR works is because of experiments on other animals, I didn't know there was any reason to think that IF might not work for reasons other than why CR might not work (in humans).

I'd be interested to find out what exactly they know/believe about how CR would be more beneficial than IF in humans.
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Old 04-28-2007, 05:27 PM   #8
Scotty Hagnas
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I'd agree that CR is an eating "disorder" in exactly the same way that the standard, always well fed Western Diet is an eating disorder. Neither situation would exist full time in nature.

The high carb, never really hungry way modern people eat is not possible in nature. Likewise, a chronically low calorie diet, with little or no energy variation - is completely unnatural as well. One leads to premature aging and dysfunction, the other may extend life, but at the cost of physical and reproductive function.

Variation in energy intake and expenditure is the only way in nature, and acting in violation of that leads to a price to be paid. I'm not surprised that former anorexics had some protection against heart disease.

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Old 04-28-2007, 06:20 PM   #9
Jeremy Shepard
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neal Winkler View Post
I'd be interested to find out what exactly they know/believe about how CR would be more beneficial than IF in humans.
Here is an older discussion from sci.life-extension. The thread is kind of hard to follow, it jumps around, and is long.

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.l...2d8ffb44ae9dda

This was from 2004, and I haven't really followed any recent discussions debating the two since my interest in IF lately has been from a health standpoint instead of maximal longevity.

Also, I'll note that Art De Vany's talk at the CR Society Conference can now be purchased from their DVD. I haven't bought it yet, but it might be interesting regarding this debate.

http://www.calorierestriction.org/cr4_dvds
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Old 04-28-2007, 08:41 PM   #10
-Ross Hunt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scotty Hagnas View Post
I'd agree that CR is an eating "disorder" in exactly the same way that the standard, always well fed Western Diet is an eating disorder. Neither situation would exist full time in nature.
I think I agree with your post: According to the criterion of nature, both CR and Western Diet are eating disorders. But I think I think that judging according to that criterion in this case misses the point: CR can be said to be a disorder in a psychological sense, or in others in terms of a criterion other than Paleo-nature. Lots of people eat the Western Diet because they just don't bother to do anything else.
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