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Old 05-08-2007, 05:00 PM   #11
Nikki Young
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Thanks Garret, that info is awesome! How long would you reccomend a loading phase go for?

Also, something came up this morning and i was wondering if you wouldn't mind giving me your opinion.. as i think this issue may be a thyroid issue but as my knowledge isn't as advanced as yours, your thoughts would be greatly appreciated!

This morning one of my clients from a group class approached me with a problem. She said she's just not hungry anymore and is training really hard (2-3 times a week with her personal trainer, 3 times at my group exercise session [high intensity]), but now over 4 weeks of starting up with personal training and stuff, she's lost about 500grams. She still has a fairly high amount of body fat to lose (probably a good 20-30kg), but apparently has lost around 30kg of fat over the last year. Her diet is something like this; 2 weetbix with skim milk and a piece of fruit. Lunch- She's not hungry but will try and get down a small bowl of salad, occasionally with some chicken. Dinner - Still not hungry but knows she should eat, and generally has a meat source with veggies on the side. Come around lunch time she gets quite fatigued, this could be from lack of food.. but also maybe thyroid issue?

She also mentioned she takes Omega3's (not sure how many but i have given her a recomended dose of 10-20g) and 4 kelp tablets a day, which i presume equals around 600*mg iodine, she wasn't sure on the amount and i'm not sure how long she's been taking this dosage for.

Would love your thoughts on this as in my brief exposure to reading up on thyroid i presume this could be something she needs looked at and could be the un-delying cause for her not seeing any results in body composition even when eating hardly any calories and exercises 5-6days a week. I'm also suprised with her lack of protein consumption, she hasn't lost scale weight in the form of muscle mass (?)
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Old 05-08-2007, 07:14 PM   #12
Garrett Smith
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Nikki,
To easily find out if there is an iodine (thus thyroid) issue likely to be involved, ask her some simple questions:
Any history of fibroids (breast, ovarian, uterine)?
Any family history of breast cancer (especially in her mother or siblings)?

Yes to those questions, plus apparent "hypothyroid" symptoms (ie. constipation, low body temp, fatigue/lethargy, always feels cold, inability to lose weight, etc.) and we have a very likely candidate for iodine deficiency.
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Old 05-08-2007, 11:34 PM   #13
Nikki Young
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Garrett, that's great, thankyou for your time to reply on this thread and the other one!

I'm wondering how to get 50mg, even 12.5mg of iodine in the body. I've searched the internet to try and find synthetic iodine products but will only come up with a mutli-vitmain, where iodine is one ingredient in the mix, or kelp, where the highest level i've seen is 240mcg of iodine per tablet. I also remember a while back trying to find a synthetic iodine source and had no luck, the only thing i could find was kelp. So would this mean, to get 12.5mg of iodine from kelp tablets each containing around 240mcg of iodine, i will need to take around 50 tablets throughout the day??

Could a reason be that i can't find synthetic iodine on the shelf due to the fact a doctor has to prescribe it? I'm also thinking that maybe iodine in high amounts (more than a general dose of kelp tablets) could be quite harmful to the body and therefor the reason it's not 'allowed' on the shelf. I know you have had good results from your recomendations on dosages for loading and maintanence phases, but i was wondering how you came to the conclusion this was a good dose to stick with and be certain that over a short or long peroid of time, that amount wouldn't cause some negative side-effects?

Also, is potassium iodide just potassium, or is potassium iodide, iodine? Or is it a seperate mineral all together?

Any ideas on how i could get more iodine without popping so many kelp pills? Also, do you think if i recommend to my client to try the loading and maintanence phase of iodine (if it's possible to get higher amounts in hand) to see if she notices any results be a good place to start, or would you recommend getting her to do a few tests just to make sure she's doing the right thing for her bodys condition?

Thanks again
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Old 05-09-2007, 07:41 AM   #14
Robert Allison
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This is the one that I take, and I'm almost certain it is the one that Garrett recommends:

http://www.optimox.com/pics/Iodine/opt_Iodoral.htm

It is an iodine/potassium iodide supplement manufactured by Guy Abraham's company. 12.5 mg / tablet

Iodine doesn't require a doctor's perscription. I am pretty sure you can find it at some health food stores (at least here in the states), and I know a number of online retailers offer it.
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Old 05-09-2007, 08:10 AM   #15
Garrett Smith
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Nikki,
I use the Iodoral version, as Robert said. It is a tablet form of the old-fashioned "Lugol's" solution. It is a combination of iodine and potassium iodide, I forget the ratio.

Iodine is somewhat hard to find for consumers as there has been a massive amount of propaganda to create fear in people over iodine, which creates insurance issues, which creates fewer retailers, etc. Also, people with their "more is better" tendencies, along with the possibility of high initial iodine dosing aggravating autoimmune thyroid conditions, has created an interesting atmosphere around iodine.

The kelp issue you "discovered" in terms of the number of pills necessary, is exactly why iodine is one of the few purified/isolated supplements I use.

When people have really tight money issues, or if they just won't wait for the test results, I'll let them know that they can buy the iodine tincture at the store, paint a quarter/half-dollar sized spot on a soft skin area (inner thigh, lower abdomen, or inner forearm/wrist). They simply re-paint a new spot when the old spot has disappeared completely. The effectiveness of this method is somewhat questionable (as to how much iodine gets in), however, some does get in, and it is very inexpensive and accessible.

If you want to get some Iodoral from me, contact me off the board.
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Old 05-09-2007, 10:25 AM   #16
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What is the general consensus on the necessity of a loading phase for long-term iodine supplementation?
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Old 05-09-2007, 03:03 PM   #17
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Jeramy,
The loading phase is standard practice among those practitioners who use iodine testing and treatment.

According to the testing procedures for iodine, 90% excretion of a single 50g dose over a 24-hour period indicates iodine "sufficiency". That means that the body keeps 5g per day approximately. So if one went to a 12.5 mg daily dose and only *eventually* would need 5mg a day, the "maintenance" dose would theoretically get one there over a long period.

From what I've seen, typical loading dose periods (assuming a post-test is taken) are 2-3 bottles worth of 180 tablets at 4 per day, which is a 3-4.5 month period. I have no idea how long it would take to reach sufficiency on the maintenance dose, and I don't want to even mess with that math, knowing that different people "hold on" to the iodine they take at different rates, and not everyone adds the sea vegetable supplement (to increase synergy and utilization) that I do.

Hope that answered the question.
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Old 05-09-2007, 04:51 PM   #18
Nikki Young
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Garrett, i'm sorry for always having another question after every reply!

I just wanted to clear up a couple things you said.
"Also, people with their "more is better" tendencies, along with the possibility of high initial iodine dosing aggravating autoimmune thyroid conditions, has created an interesting atmosphere around iodine."

I've read that too much iodine can cause thyroid issues as well, as you mentioned above. I'm wondering though if iodine is hard to find on the market for the reason that people could take too much, wouldn't 50g be considered too much, especially if a general synthetic iodine sup would have 12.5mg*, people would need to take 4 tablets a day. It has just got me thinking because along with your reply to Jeremy's post, you said the body can only hold 5mg of iodine at any one time. So wouldn't even 12.5mg be too exessive? Especially if taken in a synthetic form, where an overdose of any one thing can become toxic and start causing negative effects (including thyroid issues. Is the reason for saying 12.5mg of synthetic iodine the reason that the body can't recognise synthetic as well as natural, and therefor only some of the idoine will end up in the blood stream anyway? So wouldn't taking less of natural iodine (kelp) be better because the body can recognise and it use it.. therefor you can consume less (maybe half of what you'ld recomend for a synthetic dose) and get similar results?

Also, because iodine is only really rich in sea products. Which nature has (i guess) made not so available to us for a reason we don't need that much.. Has iodine become sufficient is some of our food sources which should contain iodine so we should actually be getting around 12.5mg of iodine in our blood through natural sources? I can't imagine anyone ever eating as much kelp as they would need to, to obtain 12.5mg of iodine in one sitting, on a constant basis.
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Old 05-13-2007, 09:10 PM   #19
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Old 05-14-2007, 08:58 AM   #20
Garrett Smith
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Quote:
Garrett, i'm sorry for always having another question after every reply!

I just wanted to clear up a couple things you said.
"Also, people with their "more is better" tendencies, along with the possibility of high initial iodine dosing aggravating autoimmune thyroid conditions, has created an interesting atmosphere around iodine."

I've read that too much iodine can cause thyroid issues as well, as you mentioned above. I'm wondering though if iodine is hard to find on the market for the reason that people could take too much,
From what I've seen, there's little evidence of ability to overdose iodine in a thyroid-healthy person. People with autoimmune thyroid issues can cause themselves problems by taking too much too soon. And yes, it's hard to find on the general market because the vast majority of people are idiots, the same reason it's hard to find solid amounts of betaine hydrochloride (stomach acid supplement). Because the dumb people hurt themselves with it.

Quote:
wouldn't 50g be considered too much, especially if a general synthetic iodine sup would have 12.5mg*, people would need to take 4 tablets a day.
50mg per day is the loading dose, only to be done for a temporary time. It is four tablets a day, in order to saturate the tissues and kick out all of the chlorine/fluorine/bromine that has been occupying the same spaces that iodine *should* have been.

Quote:
It has just got me thinking because along with your reply to Jeremy's post, you said the body can only hold 5mg of iodine at any one time. So wouldn't even 12.5mg be too exessive? Especially if taken in a synthetic form, where an overdose of any one thing can become toxic and start causing negative effects (including thyroid issues.
When the body is "iodine sufficient" (as in full of iodine), from the 24-hour urine test, it appears that the body will only hold onto about 5mg of the 50mg loading dose used in the test. Considering I haven't seen a single issue yet from using this protocol and the isolated iodine(s), I'm going to keep using it. Again, people have gotten into this "iodine is something to be afraid of" mentality, and many are paying the price.

Quote:
Is the reason for saying 12.5mg of synthetic iodine the reason that the body can't recognise synthetic as well as natural, and therefor only some of the idoine will end up in the blood stream anyway? So wouldn't taking less of natural iodine (kelp) be better because the body can recognise and it use it.. therefor you can consume less (maybe half of what you'ld recomend for a synthetic dose) and get similar results?
There are very few supplements or foods that the body absorbs 100% of. One can try doing a smaller dose of sea vegetables, with pre- and post-testing to see if they actually become iodine sufficient that way. Without testing, it's all a guessing game. My experience with using sea veggies, particularly in the loading dose phase, has been disappointing enough (mainly garnered from patient feedback) that I decided to stick with the Iodoral.

Quote:
Also, because iodine is only really rich in sea products. Which nature has (i guess) made not so available to us for a reason we don't need that much.. Has iodine become sufficient is some of our food sources which should contain iodine so we should actually be getting around 12.5mg of iodine in our blood through natural sources? I can't imagine anyone ever eating as much kelp as they would need to, to obtain 12.5mg of iodine in one sitting, on a constant basis.
The answers to your questions are in this link, http://optimox.com/pics/Iodine/IOD-02/IOD_02.htm and you can find many more in the papers/articles here: http://optimox.com/pics/Iodine/opt_Research_I.shtml

I personally have this idea that humans in general prefer to live on the ocean coast, both for easy access to the world's biggest food supply and due to the sources of iodine (seawater for swimming, seafoods, and sea vegetables). So, our modern practices of moving away from the coasts, which then tends to create lower seafood and sea vegetable intake, along with polluting our nutrition/environment with chlorine/fluorine/bromine has created the mess we are in now.
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