Home   |   Contact   |   Help

Get Our Newsletter
Sign up for our free newsletter to get training tips and stay up to date on Catalyst Athletics, and get a FREE issue of the Performance Menu journal.

Go Back   Catalyst Athletics Forums > Training > Fitness, Strength & CrossFit

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-14-2007, 07:42 AM   #21
Robb Wolf
Senior Member
 
Robb Wolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,444
Default

I like Pavels stuff a lot. Little kitchy and pricey? Sure but he REALLY knows his shite. Strength before Strength Endurance...
__________________
"Survival will be neither to the strongest of the species, nor to the most intelligent, but to those most adaptable to change."
C. Darwin

Robb's Blog
Robb Wolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2007, 09:49 AM   #22
Dave Van Skike
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: PNW
Posts: 1,738
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neal Winkler View Post
Daniel,

One thing that seperates elite athletes from amatuers is their ability to tense and relax instinctively with amazing precision. When lifting heavy things you're going to want to tense up - what Stuart McGill calls "superstifness" - other times it wouldn't be appropriate too be tense at all times. In movements like a punch or golf swing it's best to be loose right up until the moment of impact when you create whole body stiffness and then go immediately back to being loose.

Neal,

Excellent addition. I have seen observed phenomena myself adn in others in a number of sports and even in jobs that require manual dexterity and high levels of skill~ see framing carpernters, concrete workers etc. HAve never seen a really good synopsis of it.

If you have further links or citations on this subject I'd love to see it, maybe in a new thread?
__________________
Practical Strength
Dave Van Skike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2007, 08:10 AM   #23
Daniel Christensen
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 59
Default

Quote:
Daniel,

One thing that seperates elite athletes from amatuers is their ability to tense and relax instinctively with amazing precision. When lifting heavy things you're going to want to tense up - what Stuart McGill calls "superstifness" - other times it wouldn't be appropriate too be tense at all times. In movements like a punch or golf swing it's best to be loose right up until the moment of impact when you create whole body stiffness and then go immediately back to being loose.
Thanks Neal

I think I was trying to outsmart myself - looking for some theory of optimal tension, but I guess the best way of working out what is optimal for a given activity is to look at expert performers that you can relate to and see how much tension they put in?

As an aside, I thought Scott Sonnon had some theory of optimal tension (probably called neuro-optimal-tensionatics (TM)). Other than the penchant for big technical sounding copyrighted terms, there are some people on the RMAX website who display some amazing movement skills.

Dan
Daniel Christensen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2007, 08:45 AM   #24
Mark Fenner
Member
 
Mark Fenner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 165
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Van Skike View Post
Take up the offer of a loaner copy of PTTP or if you can lay your hands on it, Beyond Bodybuilding. Pavel's message makes more sense in context.
I can't second this recommendation strongly enough. Beyond Bodybuilding is amazing as a resource for lifting ideas. If you are in a rut, open to a random page and try that idea out.

As far as consistency between PTTP or Russian-Kettlebell-Challenge or any other pair of Pavel's programs (or between any two programs in existence) ... don't be misled into seeking the Grand Ultimate Truth of Training.

Just seek progress every 4-6 weeks. Rest. Repeat. And you'll get there.

Regards,
Mark

P.S. Some relevant quotes for heavy duty fire-power (*chuckle*):

A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds
-- Ralph Waldo Emmerson

I distrust all systematizers and I avoid them. The will to a system is a lack of integrity.
-- Nietzsche
Mark Fenner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2007, 09:01 AM   #25
Neal Winkler
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 326
Default

Dave, I would get a copy of Stuart McGill's "Ultimate Back Fitness and Performance." You might also want to look around at stuff by Bruce Lee.

Daniel, it just all depends on the activity, the phase of the activity ect. Elite performers just "know" how to eliminate co-contraction of antagonist muscle groups to create optimum efficiency of movement, or to create co-contraction when it's appropriate (e.g. moment of impact in a punch). I don't know how much help watching would be, and asking elite performers might not always be as productive as they might not really know because it's more of an innate skill that comes through practice, practice, practice. Bruce Lee knew it, and scientists like McGill know it because of EMS studies on elite versus amatuer athletes.
Neal Winkler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2007, 11:06 AM   #26
Scotty Hagnas
Member
 
Scotty Hagnas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 126
Default

As an aside, I thought Scott Sonnon had some theory of optimal tension (probably called neuro-optimal-tensionatics (TM)). Other than the penchant for big technical sounding copyrighted terms, there are some people on the RMAX website who display some amazing movement skills.

Dan[/quote]

Hi Dan-

You are thinking of his performance breathing protocols, and the concept of proportional force. Global, whole body tension will increase strength momentarily, but at the expense of mobility and fine motor skills. I see trainees often who brace reflexively (ala Pavel's power breathing) at even the slightest exertion- they are invariably slower, with uncoordinated, inefficient movement. These individuals waste so much extra energy on every rep - though strong, they come in toward the end of the pack on the WOD. Training to brace globally will mean that you will eventually respond this way in all situations - not a good thing, IMO.

I don't think any one of his products really focuses on this - search the mag and forum for performance breathing. I'm pretty sure it's explained in a free article.

Scotty Hagnas
CrossFit Portland
Scotty Hagnas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2007, 05:10 AM   #27
Daniel Christensen
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 59
Default

Good post, thanks Scotty.
Daniel Christensen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2007, 07:32 PM   #28
Daniel Christensen
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 59
Default

Scotty

Out of curiousity, is this something you use/ how do you implement it?

My personal breathing-tension continuum is something like this:
Heavy lifts - as tight as possible
Stretching - breathe into the stretch
Meditation - awareness of breathing
BJJ - hope like *@#$ that eventually I'll get a breath.
Daniel Christensen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2007, 11:41 AM   #29
Scotty Hagnas
Member
 
Scotty Hagnas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 126
Default

Hi Daniel-

Yes, I try to use it in almost all situations. Your strength may drop some at first as you get used to it, but eventually you can develop a very solid core while staying efficient. Practicing this style of breathing would probably help your BJJ, in particular!

Let me know if you have any problems finding those articles.

Scotty Hagnas
CrossFit Portland
Scotty Hagnas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2007, 07:28 AM   #30
Daniel Christensen
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 59
Default

Hi Scotty

At this time, it looks like if you want access to more than the 2 most recent issues of the RMAX magazine, you need to become a prememium* member (i.e. pay money).

This might be a blessing in disguise for me - one of my training goals this year is to have less training goals - and I can probably do with staying focused on my current couple of goals. That said, the people at the RMAX site show some amazing movement skills, and a graceful mover I am not, so I'll revisit this issue later on.

*oops
Daniel Christensen is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:28 PM.

Powered by vBulletin Version 3.6.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Subscribe to our Newsletter


Receive emails with training tips, news updates, events info, sale notifications and more.
ASK GREG

Submit your question to be answered by Greg Everett in the Performance Menu or on the website

Submit Your Question
WEIGHTLIFTING TEAM

Catalyst Athletics is a USA Weightlifting team of competitive Olympic-style weightlifters with multiple national team medals.

Read More
Olympic Weightlifting Book
Catalyst Athletics
Contact Us
About
Help
Newsletter
Products & Services
Gym
Store
Seminars
Weightlifting Team
Performance Menu
Magazine Home
Subscriber Login
Issues
Articles
Workouts
About the Program
Workout Archives
Exercise Demos
Text Only
Instructional Content
Exercise Demos
Video Gallery
Free Articles
Free Recipes
Resources
Recommended Books & DVDs
Olympic Weightlifting Guide
Discussion Forum
Weight Conversion Calculator