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Old 04-02-2010, 07:08 AM   #11
Ryan Dell Whitley
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I like it because it keeps me relatively lean without feeling hungry or having to really geek out about my diet.
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Old 04-02-2010, 07:23 AM   #12
Allen Yeh
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I'd definitely look into BCAA's, Derek posted the links to the leangains blog and while not an Oly guy he's definitely a fasting guy.

If you still aren't recovering well enough perhaps you should consider alternating the fast days. On really hard days have a regular day, on light/rest days fast as you already do.

Last year I typically just fasted until lunch, PT isn't too strenuous. Then again I wasn't training before PT either. I did the vast majority of my training in the afternoon.
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Old 04-02-2010, 10:02 AM   #13
Donald Lee
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I just thought of an idea, Ryan.

Why don't you try 10 grams of BCAA's pre and post workout. BCAA's are not supposed to effect your fasted state for some reason. They don't get digested.
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Old 04-02-2010, 10:13 AM   #14
Derek Weaver
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The cortisol issue after intense workouts could be tough though. Vitamin c after a workout is supposed to blunt this I think.
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Old 04-02-2010, 10:14 AM   #15
Allen Yeh
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I meant Donald posted the links. Sorry about that.
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Old 04-02-2010, 11:26 AM   #16
Donald Lee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek Weaver View Post
The cortisol issue after intense workouts could be tough though. Vitamin c after a workout is supposed to blunt this I think.
Carbs blunt cortisol. If you're fasting, you can't get around it.
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Old 04-02-2010, 11:54 AM   #17
Mike ODonnell
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I'm doing my drive-by points on IF...as many were already covered:

- IF is just a tool and not a diet, make it work to your lifestyle ...and it doesn't need to be everyday
- Make sure you are getting in enough protein everyday
- Many do IF on non-workout days and eat bigger meals of mostly protein (and less calories than workout days)
- You will of course need to gauge performance and body composition and whether you need to adjust IF days, calorie intake, etc.
- You can take weekends off too and just eat more flexible
- You can also do Warrior diet style on workout days and eat light all day and a bigger meal at night

As for fasted workouts and cortisol, try the brand "Chained Out" BCAAs pre and during the day...as it is supposed to have a cortisol blocking agent (of course I can't verify this...but talking to someone who works for them and knows his sh*t, people are seeing results using it...and doing no other changes to their diet/workouts).
http://www.evitamins.com/product.asp?pid=15691

On a side note...unless you are a bodybuilder, I think many worry too much about cortisol...as it is a natural process and has a half life of like 2 hours (unless you are one stressed out person). Much like autophagy, where you recycle proteins (especially damaged ones) is a factor in longevity/health. There are also theories of protein pulsing and how the body can upregulate protein synthesis when needed to over 24 hours if you have the protein to use. So in a sense....making sure you get enough protein in every day is still your top priority. Then dump some BCAAs in a big water jug and carry it around all day to sip on it. Adjust all other macronutrients/calories around it to meet you performance/body comp goals. It's really not all that hard, just need to keep it simple and know when things need to be changed up.
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Old 04-02-2010, 12:01 PM   #18
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Quote:
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Carbs blunt cortisol. If you're fasting, you can't get around it.
Fasting will also increase GH, which has a protein sparing effect. As long as you are still eating enough protein each day, I don't see this being a major concern for most people (of course there are exceptions for every rule such as people looking to go into bodybuilding or have an extremely high activity level...like athletes).
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Old 04-02-2010, 04:10 PM   #19
Donald Lee
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I don't see acute elevations in cortisol as a problem either. This is something Matthew Perryman wrote:

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Diet is the first key regulator of protein balance. Even in the presence of catabolic hormones, we’ve seen that the anabolic effects of amino acid (AA) intake can help to counteract protein breakdown, with and without carbohydrate (CHO) intake (Hammarqvist et al, 1994; Rankin et al, 2004; Bird et al, 2006b; Baty et al, 2007).
The issue is that fasting is also catabolic.

I suggest you try the BCAA pre and post workout and see how it goes.
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Old 04-02-2010, 05:51 PM   #20
Derek Weaver
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Didn't Martin Berkhan have a post a while back about BCAA's being fairly insulinogenic (sp? Is this a word?)

I have heard various people on the interwebz make mention that insulin is as much an anti-catabolic hormone as it is a storage hormone.

If the primarily goal of fasting is to (VERY GENERALLY SPEAKING) a) give the body a break from digestion and b) to cause a temporary drop in insulin, doesn't the presence of BCAA's mess with at least half of the equation?

I'm too lazy to look right now, but I thought that Martin noted that if a workout was done fasted, BCAA's pre-WO were a good idea assuming adequate PWO nutrition in a reasonable time frame was implemented?

/hijack
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