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-   -   Bench Press versus Dip (http://www.catalystathletics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1354)

Brandon Enos 07-21-2007 01:33 AM

Bench Press versus Dip
 
Okay, I started a 5x5 type of program this week. On Wednesday, my press was the bench. I used to have problems with it, but I went back and worked on my form, no more shoulder problems, but thats beside the point.

I know in the 5x5 post earlier, the bench was brought up a lot. I know in Starting Strength (great book btw), it is part of the program, but when Mark Rippetoe talks about it, its almost as if he dislikes it and is including it for no other reason then its popularity.

My questin is, since I am not trying to become a powerlifter, nor am I in any kind of sport or group where the bench will be a measure of "manliness", should I just do away with it and work on dips and eventually weighted dips in its place?

What do you think?

Allen Yeh 07-21-2007 06:49 AM

What is your goal right now?

I'd say that the dip and weighted dip seem to be more "functional" than the bench press but I personally would never completely take it out of my exercise selection.

Elliot Royce 07-21-2007 03:24 PM

I subbed the push press (or military press or similar) for it and, while I'm probably down from my max bench press, my chest is solid enough. The vertical presses preceded the bench press anyway.

Dave Van Skike 07-21-2007 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brandon Enos (Post 16752)
Okay, I started a 5x5 type of program this week. On Wednesday, my press was the bench. I used to have problems with it, but I went back and worked on my form, no more shoulder problems, but thats beside the point.

I know in the 5x5 post earlier, the bench was brought up a lot. I know in Starting Strength (great book btw), it is part of the program, but when Mark Rippetoe talks about it, its almost as if he dislikes it and is including it for no other reason then its popularity.

My questin is, since I am not trying to become a powerlifter, nor am I in any kind of sport or group where the bench will be a measure of "manliness", should I just do away with it and work on dips and eventually weighted dips in its place?

What do you think?

I think you're misreading Rip. the bench is certainly overdone but it is a pretty damn good exercise.

If your goal is building muscle and/or power in your upper body, pairing the bench and bench derivatives (close grip, dumbell, incline etc.) with overhead presses, rows and pull ups is hard to beat. dips are boring. I know of no strength or mass gain program built around dips. they are useful I guess, but not the best tool in the box.

Steve Liberati 07-22-2007 07:49 AM

I wouldn't eliminate the BP from your program, yet I wouldn't make it a staple either. It has its place when strength is the goal. If anything I'd use it as one of the exercises to test your upper body strength and overall progress. Say every 3 weeks or so toss it in. In the meantime, work on the bench derivatives as Dave suggested above. Oh yeah lets not forget Ring Dips. They're bad ass.

Steven Low 07-22-2007 08:07 PM

Contrary to Dave:

Speaking as a gymnast who has never done a bench ever, I can tell you that dips and overhead pressing (usually HSPUs) can build a high degree of strength and muscle mass. I've heard somewhere that dips are the squat of the upper body, and I tend to believe that notion.

Dave Van Skike 07-23-2007 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Low (Post 16844)
Contrary to Dave:

Speaking as a gymnast who has never done a bench ever, I can tell you that dips and overhead pressing (usually HSPUs) can build a high degree of strength and muscle mass. I've heard somewhere that dips are the squat of the upper body, and I tend to believe that notion.

there you go Brandon, different perspectives. if you have means to progressively overload dips and HSPU then by all means give it a try instead of bench if that floats your boat. The only downside is that it might not work as well as as Rip rx'ed it in the program. hell, dips might even work better for you. I dislike dips and use bench very sparingly to assist overhead preses. I avoid it specifically for its propensity to build mass..I have no need for big man boobs. :D So, use whichever you like but keep to the guidelines of the program, 3-5 sets ending at a set 5 fairly heavy..try it for a while and see if it works for you. post a log, get back to us.

Charles Johnson 07-23-2007 02:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Low (Post 16844)
Contrary to Dave:

Speaking as a gymnast who has never done a bench ever, I can tell you that dips and overhead pressing (usually HSPUs) can build a high degree of strength and muscle mass. I've heard somewhere that dips are the squat of the upper body, and I tend to believe that notion.


I think it was Mke Mentzer of HIT fame that coined that phrase,I could be wrong but Im sure it was either him or Authur Jones. As for replacing Bench with dips Id never do it but I tend to feel a sharp pain in my delts when I do dips, you can use more weight on Benches too. :D

Steven Low 07-23-2007 04:50 AM

Nah, you can use more weight on dips (if you include pushing your bodyweight) just like pullups are stronger than rows even though you move more externally with rows. Lat and chest recruitment is a major factor in each.

Allen Yeh 07-23-2007 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Low (Post 16853)
Nah, you can use more weight on dips (if you include pushing your bodyweight) just like pullups are stronger than rows even though you move more externally with rows. Lat and chest recruitment is a major factor in each.


Depends upon what levels you are comparing, I have serious doubts that a 200# powerlifter that can bench 500-600 can add 300-400#'s on dips?


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