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-   -   Strange pain/sensation when squatting (http://www.catalystathletics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1675)

Declan Cockburn 10-04-2007 04:28 PM

Strange pain/sensation when squatting
 
Okay while I am a beginner, I've done a lot of reading up and practicing in front of a mirror to make sure I've got the form right.

It only becomes an issue when I get above 70 kilos. I can feel it a little then, at 80 kilos (my weight) it gets really bothersome. I have to stop out of discomfort and worry. Also it only happens at the bottom of the squat.
It's mostly a burning sensation down the bottom of my stomach, just above the pubic bone very much towards my right side. Like someone jabbing me there with a red hot poker. It's localised and is exactly where I'd imagine my appendix to be (or have formally been, I had it removed nearly 5 years ago). Anyone ever experience this? Or have any idea what might be going on?

After the squats the pain is gone completely and there's no evidence that it happened except memory. This leads me to believe it's not a muscle injury.

Mike ODonnell 10-05-2007 05:21 AM

Sounds like a type of hernia or muscle tear? Had something like that a few years back....took some time off....did some stretching and more 1 legged strength work. It went away but doesnt mean what I had is the same thing you had.

Of course best advice would be lay off squatting....as you may just keep damaging it over and over and not letting it heal. Then use fish oil as an anti-inflammatory. If you feel a lump then you may have a hernia and may want a dr to look at it.

Ben Langford 10-27-2007 05:29 PM

I concur with Mike, it does sound like the beginning of a small hernia. However, the burning sensation you describe, coupled with the position specific pain, suggests to me some kind of minor nerve damage.

Garrett Smith 10-28-2007 07:55 AM

Could be adhesions from the appendectomy...some kind of scar therapy may be of big help in this situation.

Mohamed F. El-Hewie 12-26-2007 04:58 AM

3 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Declan Cockburn (Post 20674)
Okay while I am a beginner, I've done a lot of reading up and practicing in front of a mirror to make sure I've got the form right.

It's mostly a burning sensation down the bottom of my stomach, just above the pubic bone very much towards my right side. Like someone jabbing me there with a red hot poker.

1) Practicing in front of mirror and reading up have never been the proper approach to learning. Imagine getting rid of schools and keeping kids at home in front of mirrors, with plenty of books to read!!.

2) No body would know the exact cause, but muscular imbalance and inexperienced execution of exercise top my list of differential diagnosis.

Garrett Smith 12-26-2007 06:19 AM

Now let's not bash all "home-learnin'". Too many great folks have learned too much by reading at home to just throw it out the window...
http://www.home4schoolgear.com/famoushomeschooler.html

I'd bet most of their time was spent simply reading by themselves. Education has only gotten worse since grouping children together in classes. Kids going to school and learning how to text message sure isn't helping. The differences on the whole in behavior I see between homeschooled kids and kids going to regular school is outrageous, enough to scare me away from group schooling.

I was lucky in kindergarten to be sent, by myself, to the library for one whole day a week to simply read by myself (as the teacher could see that I gained more from that than going slowly with the other kids).

I'm still going with my initial hunch of an adhesion in the area, completely prioritized because of the surgery in that exact area and the fact that a regular part of my practice is dealing with surgery "fallout" symptoms like this. From http://www.healthscout.com/ency/68/67/main.html:

Quote:

Adhesions are most commonly found in the abdomen, where they form after abdominal surgery, inflammation or injury. Adhesions are fibrous tissues within the body that join normally unconnected parts. Although sometimes present from birth, adhesions are usually scar tissue formed after inflammation. The most common site of adhesions is the abdomen, where they often form after peritonitis (inflammation of the abdominal lining) or following surgery, as part of the body’s healing process.
...
Adhesions can pull on nerves or organs, and depending on where they are located can cause pain in the body while stretching, exercising, or even deep breathing.
I'd suggest you look into neural therapy for your scar. Many NDs perform this, such as myself and this doctor: http://www.drhalbrown.com/neural_therapy.php. If you need more help finding someone, let me know. Dealing with this scar is likely your best bet.

Mohamed F. El-Hewie 12-26-2007 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garrett Smith (Post 23859)
I'd suggest you look into neural therapy for your scar. Many NDs perform this, such as myself and this doctor: http://www.drhalbrown.com/neural_therapy.php. If you need more help finding someone, let me know. Dealing with this scar is likely your best bet.

You scared the hell out of that young man. If every lifter runs to the doctor for each inconvenience, there would be no one left in the gyms.

Here is my concern:
1) How did you narrow down your diagnosis without knowing the age, physical condition, or thorough physical history of his complaint?

2) How do you associate internal issue with intestinal pain that is only triggered by squatting with 80 kg barbell and only at deep squat?

3) There is a conflict of interest between your profession as a practitioner and a casual complaint made on the forum. If the complainant has a medical issue, I rather advise him to see his own doctor. That way, he could get the proper care without worry about biased and unsolicited opinion.

Garrett Smith 12-26-2007 11:05 AM

Thanks for your input, and I'll post whatever I like. You're the new person to the forum, you're the one who should be watching what YOU post.

Who are you to judge that what I said was scary? Honestly, the denial that most conventional doctors live in around what scar tissue actually does to the human system is appalling.

You might want to learn a bit more about my background and history within this and other related online communities (CrossFit) before you start coming in here and blasting off on me. There's a heck of a lot more people who truly value my contributions than there are who don't.

I'd say he was asking for an opinion, one might even say soliciting (see definition #2)...

Quote:

Anyone ever experience this? Or have any idea what might be going on?
Opinions are inherently biased. My status as a practitioner would seem to give me an educated view ("opinion") of the situation. Just because I may not use what you choose to use does NOT make mine wrong.

BTW, I find your comment about not learning from books rather ironic, since you wrote one, with the not-so-modest title of "Essentials of Weightlifting and Strength Training." I linked a definition in there in case you needed to see it.

On to your "concerns":

Quote:

1) How did you narrow down your diagnosis without knowing the age, physical condition, or thorough physical history of his complaint?
I NEVER gave a diagnosis, using words in my posts like "Could be...", "hunch", and "look into..." . I don't give diagnoses, unlike you did in this thread...

Quote:

2) How do you associate internal issue with intestinal pain that is only triggered by squatting with 80 kg barbell and only at deep squat?
It's obvious to me that you don't understand the scope of effects scar tissue can have on the entire fascial system, much less the LOCALIZED area where someone had an abdominal surgical procedure! The heavier the weight, the more the issue becomes apparent, as in any system put under strain--the higher the strain, the quicker and more intensely the signs of dysfunction become. You appear to be educated in weightlifting, do you not understand what is going on with the lower abdomen, in terms of pressure and tension, at the bottom of a squat? How internal adhesions and non-pliable scar tissue might cause problems in that area, especially as the weights start getting heavier?

Quote:

3) There is a conflict of interest between your profession as a practitioner and a casual complaint made on the forum. If the complainant has a medical issue, I rather advise him to see his own doctor. That way, he could get the proper care without worry about biased and unsolicited opinion.
At what point does this become a medical issue? If you're saying he should see his own doctor, then it IS a medical issue. I'm letting him know about a modality that could very likely help, that his doctor may not know about or utilize, thus requiring a visit to a different doctor. Now, seeing as Mr. Cockburn has been a member of this forum since August, I will actually guess that he knew who he might be getting feedback from on this forum by asking a question like this. Maybe my opinion was one of those he was actually seeking. Maybe not, but imagine if that were the case. Seeing as you're on single digit posts to this point, I doubt that it was your opinion he was after.

Basically, why don't you mind your own business? And if you weren't aware, every doctor's opinion and care are inherently biased, their "care" follows in their biased opinion.

Or you could just stay at your own forum.

Jordan Glasser 12-26-2007 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mohamed F. El-Hewie (Post 23861)
You scared the hell out of that young man. If every lifter runs to the doctor for each inconvenience, there would be no one left in the gyms.

Here is my concern:
1) How did you narrow down your diagnosis without knowing the age, physical condition, or thorough physical history of his complaint?

2) How do you associate internal issue with intestinal pain that is only triggered by squatting with 80 kg barbell and only at deep squat?

3) There is a conflict of interest between your profession as a practitioner and a casual complaint made on the forum. If the complainant has a medical issue, I rather advise him to see his own doctor. That way, he could get the proper care without worry about biased and unsolicited opinion.

This went sideways a little too quick!

When asking for people's help, that's exactly what you're going to get. And, more specifically, it's going to be in line with their area of expertise. What's the problem? It all makes sense to me.

Yes, I do agree with the assessment that squatting in front of a mirror and reading books would not be the same as being coached to squat by a professional.

On the other hand, the amount of abdominal pressure when executing a proper heavy squat is more then anything most normal people could execute in every day life. And everyone I've worked with who's had any type of abdominal surgery at any time in their life still deals with some type of discomfort from it.

Both opinions seem like possible solutions to me.

In the end it's all just inferences, bases on some words on a page. Hopefully, someone here nails Declan's problem. Let's not attack those trying to help. Especially those who've helped so many here already!

Mohamed F. El-Hewie 12-26-2007 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garrett Smith (Post 23869)

1- "the denial that most conventional doctors live in around what scar tissue actually does to the human system is appalling."

2- "the scope of effects scar tissue can have on the entire fascial system, much less the LOCALIZED area where someone had an abdominal surgical procedure!"

3- "do you not understand what is going on with the lower abdomen, in terms of pressure and tension, at the bottom of a squat?"

Comments:
=========
1- How did you reach the conclusion that his past surgery caused scarring and that such scarring was consequential? All he had is pain that is induced during heavy lifting and that pain subsides without a trace.

2- Suppose that the past appendectomy left a scar in the three layers of the abdominal muscles. How would that trigger pain in the stomach area? I would rather entertain the idea that either the pain originates from pinching a spinal nerve during unstable deep squatting or from other internal source that was strained during such compromised position. Had the muscular scar weakened the abdominal support, then one might assume that the pain localizes around the scarred and weekend area.

In any case, the pain in the epigastric region must be explained in terms of the nerve supply of that region. A somatic origin such as a scar in the skeletal muscles due to appendectomy would not radiate pain to the epigastric region. An intestinal scar would not give rise to pain during lifting particularily a scar in the right colon.

After the pinched spinal nerve root, I would consider vagal stimulation as highly probable cause for epigastric pain due to stressful lifting.


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