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-   -   Solutions for a flawed squat? (http://www.catalystathletics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2730)

Tarun Suri 07-19-2008 02:46 PM

Solutions for a flawed squat?
 
In attempt to reprogram my basics and perfect my form, I went back to the pvc pipe.
The following is a summary of my situation:

Problem
1 Lower back rounds at the bottom of the squat
2 Shoulders rest well past knees (upper body too horizontal)
3 Knees buckle inwards under heavy loads during ascent

Hypothesis
1 Glutes lacking flexibility
1 Imbalanced core: lower back weaker than abdominals
2 ?
3 Hip abductors lack strength

Solution
1 Stretch glutes
1 Strengthen lower back
2 ?
3 Strengthen hip abductors

What do you think of the previous list?
Does it seem accurate and does it need any improvement?
After applying these exercises and stretches, I would asses myself weekly with the following methods:

"Wall" air squats (squat near a wall without touching it).
Overhead squat (Then reassess any new weaknesses)
Balancing overhead squat [on bosu ball] (Optional)

Then hopefully with all this covered, I can start to add weights to continue my programmability and finally when I'm satisfied, start learning Olympic lifts.

What are your opinions on this?

Steven Low 07-19-2008 04:10 PM

1a. Search youtube for the Squat RX videos.

1b. Also, rounding of lower back is usually due to tight hamstrings and NOT core or glutes. Tight hammies posteriorly rotate the pelvis = back rounding.

2a. Put your weight on your heels. Squat should feel like you're sitting back.

2b. If you can get a vid up so we can see your mechanics.

3. You can generally fix inward knees by focusing on engaging your glutes by pushing up and out during the ascent phase. But some specific work with adductors and abductors would probably help, heh.


Yeah, for stuff like your 'diagnosis' of #1 with the core + glutes.. but not hammies.. it really helps to know your physiology. If you don't, I wouldn't try to speculate on it (and read up) otherwise sometimes you come up with really whacked out conclusions that don't work.

Tarun Suri 07-20-2008 10:55 AM

I'm happy you decided to reply to my post Steven. One of the main reason I posted this is to get feedback as to whether my assumptions are correct. I'm reading up a lot the past week or so... this is a good way to assess my hypothesis... anyways I digress.

I watched almost every single Squat Rx videos and posted specific questions on some stretches he described.

Anyways, I'll get on hamstring flexibility starting right away. I notice that the problems start before I hit parallel, should I stop descending until there while I build flexibility?

As for sitting my heels, I think about these non stop (now that I went back to bodyweight air squats), although very often I lose my balance.

Also the knees only buckle in during heavy loads and might be an offshute of the earlier problems, but I'll work on the adductors.

I was given the advice that should put some weight to the bar while I do this. Adding resistance would help with the stretch and get results according to the CF forums. Do you agree with this?

I'll get a video of me squatting asap.

Dave Van Skike 07-20-2008 11:35 AM

Tarun,

you've got a lot of info to digest there so I don't want to overload you but there is a bone simple flexibility drill I have used and continue to for the squat, warming up or cooling down etc. (this may even be on Bob's squarrx vids..I don't know)

The first is what I call a stripper squat. Find a pole or post that you can hold onto at about belly button height standing about 3/4 arms lenght away. you could also use a sturdy doorknob

hold onto the pole and squat all the way down ( the proverbial ass to grass that few ever actually hit) using the pole for balance. you can really lean back, round your back and settle into a deep squat. with your weight biased to the heels. it sound kind of silly but by using a little assistance you can work up to sets of 20 to 30 very quickly.

once you're comfortable with it you can use this stretch to hit all the squatting infrastructure just by leaning one way or the other and widening or narrowing your stance, or just focusing on pushing your knees apart. at the bottom let your back round and then practice moving into a solid arched position with chest up shoulder blade pinched and then back to an exaggerated relaxed round back. if you know any yoga stuff I think it's like a "squatting cat/camel" if that makes sense.

it sounds like a simple thing but i used this movement to rehab from double patella relocations. I went from chronic pain and a limp three years ago to being able to squat heavy-ish twice a week now without pain, regardless of how tight my hams are, I never lose my arch. If I develop hip flexibility issues or have trouble hitting depth on a heavy squat, I'll crank out several hundred of these throughout the day for a week and it really loosens up. Sorry if this is a bit remedial, but it really helped me..

Steve Liberati 07-20-2008 02:20 PM

I bet warming up with a bunch of dynamic mobility drills will help a great deal. Check out Eric Cressey's Magnificent Mobility (M2) to learn more. I've seen it make a big difference in terms of flexibilty and squat depth/ROM for my clients.

Tarun Suri 07-21-2008 10:14 AM

Thanks Dan, I'll place some emphasis on that stretch/excercise.

Sorry Steve but I don't really want to pay $40 to learn those drills.

Justin Fricke 07-21-2008 04:48 PM

Knees buckling with heavy loads?---Too much weight then...you can fix this without abbductor work...lessen the load and "spread the ground as you go down" get you knees wide and dont let them come back in---until you can do this with moderate weight you should not be doing it with heavier weight..that will fix your problem...something that may also help is a Dumb bell 1 leg 1 arm RDL...

Mike ODonnell 07-21-2008 07:58 PM

lots of good suggestions....here's another ROM drill. Do a squat facing a wall 6" (or start at 12" and keep moving closer) away with your hands over your head (hold a stick if you want)....good luck. When you can master that without weights then go back to weighted squats. You can't round forward...as your hands and head are not be able to go through the wall.

Steve Liberati 07-22-2008 04:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tarun Suri (Post 35020)
Thanks Dan, I'll place some emphasis on that stretch/excercise.

Sorry Steve but I don't really want to pay $40 to learn those drills.

Yeah you don't have to buy the DVD to learn the exercises. Just suggesting that you do some dynamic mobility work prior to your workout. Countless "free" sources out there to learn on your own.

Tarun Suri 07-22-2008 10:24 AM

Oh in that case, I peform them every workout. Specifically, I think it's called the Burgener warmup if I remember right.

I'm really happy with all the responses, I've learnt so much and my squat is getting better.

Before squat rehab, my but winked above parallel and now is winks at parallel and it hasn't even been a week I've been working on it. It just hasn't become a habit yet. If I squat without thinking, I'll have the same crappy form as before. I really have to think about thrusting forward with my hips to get a lower drop with a better back position.

I'm going to try box squats as well today, but I don't know if I'm supposed to rest on the box or not.

Wall squats seem like a good way or forcing my way doing properly and slowly.


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