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-   -   bulking up (http://www.catalystathletics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3568)

Steve Kaspar 12-28-2008 03:17 PM

bulking up
 
i just read on another site how lots of the athletes do the starting strength, and drink a gallon of milk a day.
before i write anymore, i just want to say i respect everyones wants and needs.. personally, i totally disagree with it , but different strokes for different folks.
so getting back to my comment.. i bet 99% of all of us athletes, trying to get bigger faster and stronger for whatever sport we play or do, are not professionals, that we have to go to work every day.
so my point is, why does the guy who deadlifts 300# at his local gym, want to drink a gallon of milk a day, and gain 20 pounds in a months time, but 10 pounds of that are fat??so he puts up 350# in a few months.??? but when he takes off his shirt, he looks like a big strong, fattish kind of guy. why not eat well, sleep well and train hard and stay away from putting on all that fat.?? where is the 350# get you ??? i read all 33 posts and it seems like they are all just local guys trying to get bigger.. but who wants to get fat? i guess they gotta get big and fat, then the strength comes, then the diet... i would rather train hard, eat well, and recover well, and look like a decathlete year round, instead of looking like an out of shape offensive lineman half of the year, and a bigger stronger guy the other half of the year.
i think alot of guys are caught up in a numbers game.. where they have to squat 400, so they put on 20-30# of fat then their pr goes from 350 to 400, but in the mean time, they look terrible.
why would you put on 10-15pounds of unwanted fat?
i imagine its just because they want to see the numbers go up. me, if i squat 200, i will train hard to get better, but not by getting fat. i dont wanna look fat,so i'll stay at 200, but look lean and like an athlete.
in my day, you didnt see great athletes like bobby orr, or stan mikita, or bill toomay, or ian stewart, or mark spitz gaining unwanted fat...
anyway, just wanted to put this comment out there and ask why?
thanks, and i'm not being rude or disrespectful towards anyone.
steve kaspar

Donald Lee 12-28-2008 03:34 PM

Many people who do Starting Strength and drink a gallon of milk a day do it because it works. Their goal is to get bigger and stronger. If their goal were to stay or look athletic, they'd do something else. It's quite possible to get a lot stronger without getting bigger, but it's so much easier to do it while getting bigger.

And drinking a gallon of milk a day in the short term doesn't make you look like a fat slob unless you were fat to start with. Personally, I wouldn't drink a gallon of milk a day beyond the first month. Then, I'd probably lower my calorie intake a little because of diminishing gains.

But the bottom line is, if you just want to get strong, SS + GOMAD is a good option, but if keeping your weight down and looking like a model year-around are your goals, then do something else.

Júlíus G. Magnússon 12-28-2008 03:56 PM

Why are you so scared of fat?

I don't understand this fat phobia some people have. I certainly don't mind being a little chubby while gaining strength.

Derek Weaver 12-28-2008 04:10 PM

Bottom line is that with a program based on linear progression over the course of 3 workouts per week like SS, you're not going to continue to progress without weight gain.

You may show good progress for a while, but those who are willing to get a little chubby get better results than those who are afraid of fat.

I personally found it liberating to lose the abs for a while. Staying lean is where I feel best, but I wasn't strong enough anymore. Hopefully as I continue to lean back out I'll be able to keep most of the strength or only experience a temporary dip while in caloric deficit.

And I just noticed this "look like a decathlete"... kinda random, but I guess it works.

Gavin Harrison 12-28-2008 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Kaspar (Post 46558)
i imagine its just because they want to see the numbers go up. me, if i squat 200, i will train hard to get better, but not by getting fat. i dont wanna look fat,so i'll stay at 200, but look lean and like an athlete.
in my day, you didnt see great athletes like bobby orr, or stan mikita, or bill toomay, or ian stewart, or mark spitz gaining unwanted fat...
anyway, just wanted to put this comment out there and ask why?
thanks, and i'm not being rude or disrespectful towards anyone.
steve kaspar

So you care about aesthetics... leave me alone. To get very strong you have to EAT enough to recover between strength sessions, which is a little tougher than recovering from "normal" sports training (generalization).

I've never had abs, and don't care. I've always been "skinny fat", so in my mind, being hyooge fat isn't much of a difference, except being much stronger.

Grissim Connery 12-28-2008 11:23 PM

from the grappling perspective, i love the idea of keeping the same weight but getting stronger. thus slowly progressing in strength while keeping a lower bodyweight seems to be more natural to me.

when you beat somebody in grappling, it's more likely cause you used better technique, not because you out muscled them. i view strength in the same way now. properly understanding the coordination for specific motions, whether it be a planche or a front squat, i think is the most important aspect just as the proper method to choke somebody vs. squeezing somebody's neck. i could drink a gallon of milk a day and get huge and easily squeeze somebody's neck hard, or i could take my time and learn the proper motions to achieve my goals. after all, if i do gain all that extra fat, i'm going to be in a higher weight class. this is a built in system to ensure that people strive to figure out technique and not just become fat sacks that outweigh each other.

from my view, if somebody puts on a good deal of fat to move some weight around, then they should already be moving an impressive amount of weight. some guys fatten up to add 50 lbs to their squat or whatever when their PR was low to begin with. i'm not saying my PR's are impressive, but i feel that it's more important to coordinate the motions when you're at low levels. if you've got some for real competition numbers that are impressive then maybe it's worth upping some fat to add to your maxes. it's like IFing before you've tried cleaning up your diet first. it's better to work and really fine tune the diet and understand how food effects you before implementing a more intense tactic.

crawl before you walk

Mike ODonnell 12-29-2008 08:33 AM

I imagine it differs on goals and sports....as an ice hockey player would not want to be that overweight vs a football lineman who needs the weight (or he gets pushed around). As for the average "day job" person....if they would rather gain strength quicker, they probably do better to "bulk" up quickly...which means more fat gain. But that is not to say there are not plenty of stronger leaner athletes. Personally I would rather go the slow and steady way of putting on lean mass as usually there is always some sort of fat gain (although minimal). I did the "bloated" look in college long ago....little did I know how fat I really was and how much better I feel leaned out. But...too each his own.

BTW....fantastic references to hockey guys.....you aren't by chance the same Steve Kaspar from the Bruins in the 90s? :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Kaspar (Post 46558)
in my day, you didnt see great athletes like bobby orr, or stan mikita, or bill toomay, or ian stewart, or mark spitz gaining unwanted fat...


Mike Prevost 12-29-2008 02:01 PM

Weight Gain
 
Hi Steve

I guess it depends on what you value most. Many guys who grew up skinny don't mind getting a little soft around the middle if it means they can gain some muscle and push some bigger weights in the gym. Others prefer to look more athletic year round. When you get down to it, both options are rooted in vanity to some extent.

The gallon of milk thing does not have to get you fat though. I had a roomate in college who was very lean but skinny. I took a look at his diet and told him that he was not eating nearly enough to gain mass. He took it a bit far and started eating a pound of bacon every morning! I kid you not. People started calling him "bacon man." Well....it worked. The guy put on almost 30 pounds over the course of the summer and he still had very defined abs. The folks on his rugby team thought he was on steroids but he was not. Extra calories can be very anabolic.

I would say that he was more of an exception and I would not expect most people to respond in the same way.

In any case, it is all about personal preferences. However, I am with you these days. I have no desire to gain any fat, even if it means that my muscle and strength gains will come more slowly.

Mike

Arien Malec 12-29-2008 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gavin Harrison (Post 46578)
I've never had abs, and don't care. I've always been "skinny fat", so in my mind, being hyooge fat isn't much of a difference, except being much stronger.

Amen, brother!

Kevin Perry 12-29-2008 02:56 PM

A lot of people who have ganied a lot of weight and strength through milk and squats will probably dissagree with you.


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