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Steve Kaspar 01-11-2009 11:29 AM

deadlifting
 
i have 1 day a week to do this exercise, so i try to combine endurance as well as strength. i warm up with 10 reps 60#, another set of 10 with 100#. then go to 150# 20 reps, then 170# 10 reps, then 200# 5 reps, 200# 5 reps again, then 220# a single, then 230# a single. a good workout, or are changes needed? just building strength/endurance.
my best is 360# at 145#, but i dont wanna lift that heavy anymore, as i'm afraid of injuries. i did those weights when i was playing ice hockey in the 1970's..
53 years old, 6' 145#
thanks
steve

George Mounce 01-11-2009 12:07 PM

Thats an awful lot of volume in one day. I know in the CFT article Rip talks about a warm-up for the CFT lifts (of which the deadlift is one) then go for 1 heavy pull. I think you'd get more benefit out of this. My guess is your deadlift for a bunch of reps isn't as deadlift as you think. The bar must be on the ground not moving, and no stretch reflex is to be involved. Too many people I see that are doing multiple reps don't put the bar down and let it be without motion. This is essential for a good deadlift set.

If you do the deadlift correctly the result isn't a chance of injury, its a chance of getting stronger.

Jay Cohen 01-11-2009 12:36 PM

IMO; way to much w/u with light weight, not enough work at your workset.

Look at the SS program for rips warmup and work set method.

Rip also suggests that you do only one set of 5 at your workweight. Not that you couldn't do a 5 x 3 or even a 5x5, but the point is.

For a 225 workset, I do a set of 5 with bar, 5 x 95, 3 x 135, 2 x 185 then nail 5 x 225, I also the DL at the end of W/O, which starts with squat, then press, end with DL. so my back is pretty warm and ready to go.

Most people do way to many warm up sets, then are pooped for the worksets.

You want to build more speed and endurance, add Powercleans.

Just my two cents

Dave Van Skike 01-11-2009 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Kaspar (Post 47449)
i have 1 day a week to do this exercise, so i try to combine endurance as well as strength.

i'd drop that and do one or the other...nothing magic just chasing two rabbits at once.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Kaspar (Post 47449)
i warm up with 10 reps 60#, another set of 10 with 100#. then go to 150# 20 reps, then 170# 10 reps, then 200# 5 reps, 200# 5 reps again, then 220# a single, then 230# a single.

if you are doing this for endurance..don't. I'd do times sets of DL at a medium heavy weight keeping the reps low (<5) or do a straight DL session.

if you are doing this because you need a longer warm up that's fine.. some of us need long warm ups... here's what i do.

1. KB swings and snatches. on and off for 5 min.
(DB snatches work fine..db swings are IMO ungainly and stupid.)

2. rest a few min and then, progressive pulls
cleans, a set of 2-3
hi pulls a set of of 2-3
a dl with hard shrug once set of 3.

3. a couple of light dl's at 60ish percent maybe with a little shrug at the top but if not, no big deal. a double at 75%, a single at 85% and then>

4.a couple singles. maybe three sets max, at 90% OR if you like big 5's, one set of 5 at 80-85%

if this isn't enough volume, you can always hit a couple back off sets of 8 with RDL's. If you are worried about too much DL volume I'd reduce the vol. above one quarter and do be more efficient in the warmup.

I do this exact routine on after squatting often replacing the top set of DL with three sets of increasingly heavy RDL's, I feel stronger when I'm done than when I started. I try to hit everything snappy and fast....speed over load.

Adam Gagliardi 01-12-2009 03:10 AM

I have used working up to a heavy single then dropping 30- 90 lbs and repping it out. we used this for contests with a DL for reps. may look like:
135*5
225*5
315*3
365*3
405*1
455*1
385*12 or whatever could be managed, there wouldnt be too much else after this though

Allen Yeh 01-12-2009 05:41 AM

I'd like to echo what Dave said. Pick what you want to do on that day and it do it. An idea would be to alternate one day going for higher repetitions and one day going for lower reps. Or even a 2 week heavy and 2 week not as heavy, there are tons of way to skin a cat here.

I'm curious as to why you want to work endurance with the deadlift? Is it for cycling specifically?

Tim Luby 01-12-2009 07:33 AM

In my own experience, I've tweaked my back worse from high-rep DLs than heavy ones.
Use DLs for strength and metcon for endurance.

Gant Grimes 01-12-2009 01:45 PM

Using the deadlift to improve endurance is about as useful as going to spin class to get stronger.

What are your goals, Steve? Based on the questions you've asked, you're interested in getting ripped abs; you don't understand why anyone would get big and strong but sacrifice abs; and you want to combine strength and endurance.

Spell out your goals and what you're willing to give up for them (strength, muscle), and we can help you. Is this for cycling? Do you realize some extra strength will help you? Do you realize that vastly improved strength with little bodyweight gained will improve your strength to bodyweight ratio?

I'm not trying to be rude, but it seems like you brush off a lot of the advice you receive while still asking questions. You could get better advice by being more specific.

Steve Kaspar 01-12-2009 06:54 PM

deadlifting
 
rant, and everyone else
as always, thanks for the replies.
grant, your not being rude at all. hell, i listen to everyones opinions.. usually, if i ask 1 question, i get 10 different reoplies. i try to use all replies to see what works for me. in a years time, if you get a few good pointers out of lots of questions you ask, all the books you read, and all the internet surfing you do, your doing very good.... i have 48 years of training in me and i still ask questions. there are always new exercises to try, as the old school way isnt always the best.... most of the time it is, but its great hearing from younger guys, giving their opinions.
i try new things that may not work for the traditional powerlifter/bodybuilder or CF guy, and they may not want to train my way either, but then their not racing 80 mile road races... i see some of my younger competitors at mile 70 of a 90 mile road race and they are all over their bike, struggling... all the heavy training, or rep training i do year round makes my body relaxed at this point in a race.
as far as abs, hell i got a great 6 pack. i'm 6' 145#, but always wanted a better one...
there is a fine line in getting bigger and stronger in cycling, as i have seen a few of my own friends, one that placed very high in nationals this past year, struggle big time and get dropped on the 3-4-5 mile climbs.. we cant have it all. track racers look like arnold, and are good at track explosive racing, and guys like me are ok at road races. i have been 6' 145 my whole life...
it be nice to look like arnold, run like carl lewis, be as strong as bill kazmier, cycle like lance, get the babes john holmes got, but i just try to improve at what i currently do..
i thank you and all others on the board for the help and replies.
i'll have more questions... we all want to get better.
thanks again
steve

Gant Grimes 01-12-2009 07:35 PM

Ok, so let's assume you want, in order of priority, 1) to improve your cycling, 2) to stay at the same, or lighter, bodyweight, 3) to get stronger.

If you're training for centuries and crits, you're not going to get much bigger, no matter what kind of training you do. You're a naturally lean dude, and you're simply burning too many calories and doing too much distance training to maintain significant mass. You can still benefit from heavy basics like deadlifts, overhead squats, and other movements to strengthen your trunk.

You might want to check the CrossFit Endurance site for some more ideas. Some of those folks have combined CF workouts with some endurance-specific training. And read Paleo Diet for Athletes (Friel/Cordain) if you haven't already.


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