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james forshaw 01-18-2009 01:40 PM

"Quality" gains
With just 2 weeks to go til I begin growing (currently leaning down), I just wanted to get some ideas on increasing the quality of gains - i.e. more muscle than fat.

I know that eating as much as possible with GOMAD is the way to the fastest gains, but I find the idea of putting on a large amount of fat to just to have to burn it off again outdated. My idea is the following:

Mon: SS (A/B) + HIIT Sprints
Tue: Rest
Wed: SS (B/A)
Thu: Rest
Fri: SS (A/B) + HIIT Sprints
Sat: Rest
Sun: Rest

HIIT sprints never leave me with DOMS that prevent me from squatting, and I've definitely read that they can be anabolic at best, and have no detrimental effect on mass building at worst.

Nutritionwise - paleo, in the ratio of Robb Wolf's 42ways i.e. carb kcals about half your protein kcals with plenty of good fat - as clean and efficient as things get.

Altered GOMAD - I worked out that if you add about 25g of whey to each pint, then you can get away with drinking 6 and a bit pints instead of 8 for the same number of calories AND the calories you get break down into a ratio not dissimilar to the 42ways ratio. I figure you take in less sugar this way.

What do you guys think? Short, sharp HIIT + clean paleo food + tweaked GOMAD = potentially leaner gains? Considering I only want to put on about 6-7kg in 8 weeks, I feel it's worth a try.

Derek Weaver 01-18-2009 01:50 PM

I think you're better off keeping carbs in. They're important for growth and glycogen in the muscle.

6-7 kg in 8 weeks= approximately 13-15 lbs. right? That's not exactly a small growth in 8 weeks. At that rate, you're going to get chubby, regardless of diet composition.

Kevin Perry 01-18-2009 07:30 PM

Lots of things to consider quality of calories taken in and your own genetics can alter how much fat and muscle you will gain. You'll have to experiment with it to find what works but carbs may end up being your friend for the added mass.

How serious are you about 7 kilos in 8 weeks? im sure it's possible if you keep eating but a good portion of it is bound to be fat.

Derek Weaver 01-18-2009 08:51 PM

Lyle's noted that when things are done as close to perfect as possible, most people will ended up with a 1:1 ratio of fat to muscle gained.

At 7-8 kilos in 8 weeks that ratio is likely to be worse.

I read a decent article in the Staley Newsletter a week or two ago about predictions for the year. One of them was (big time paraphrase coming. If anyone can remember who said all this feel free to say who. Can't find the newsletter in my email inbox anymore): Carbs will be new again. Performance will increase and muscles will be fuller.

Take what you will from that.

james forshaw 01-19-2009 04:17 AM

I'm thinking of splitting up the gaining phase now. One period to put on muscle + fat, then 2-3 weeks of cutting/maintaining, then another period to put on a little more. 13-15lbs does sound like a lot in the cold light of day, and I'm not genetically gifted at all.

Steven Low 01-19-2009 08:54 AM

I don't think you can do it with the HIIT if you're actually doing HIIT right.

3 days of HIIT should wipe out your CNS unless it's very short in which case it wouldn't be worth it anyway.

And once the weights start getting high on linear progression you shouldn't need the stimulus of HIIT to grow anyway as you're increasing the weight each session.

For any set program my opinion is always do the program RX'ed. It's already fairly optimized for mass and strength gain so modifying it like you know how to program better than Rip is not a very good idea.

Derek Weaver 01-19-2009 10:03 AM

I'm not sure what your training background is or your age (ie, 17 year old lifters donig things right get bigger and stronger than 47 year old lifters. With less fat gained etc.)... but 13-15 lbs. of solid mass is a lot and not really a short term goal.

I think that if you want to go the "bulk-cut-bulk" route it'll take longer, but you may be happier with body comp.

Have you checked out Lyle's forum to see how they're doing it over there?

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