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-   -   D. Coaching Vid - "Clean Deadlift"?? you tell me (http://www.catalystathletics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3879)

Brian Lawyer 02-15-2009 11:48 AM

D. Coaching Vid - "Clean Deadlift"?? you tell me
 
Deadlift video links are WFS and down at the bottom of this thread. I am not exactly sure what constitutes a "Clean Deadlift". But as you will see in the below video I am attempting to setup in the same pulling position I would perform a clean from and I am wearing my weightlifting shoes with raised heels. If I was going for pure Strength I probably would have opted for no shoes and have put my hips in a higher pulling position to begin with.

I have been beating myself up lately over the fact that I think I should be able to deadlift a lot more weight. Most people can usually deadlift more than they can squat but I am about 30 - 40 lbs less than my squats. Part of this deficiency may be due to the Starting Strength workouts I have been doing. For those not familiar with a SS routine I outlined my workout below. As you will see deadlifts come at the very end and I am pretty well gassed at that point.

This deadlift video is the end of the workout which was started on my prior D. Coaching Squat thread, found here http://www.cathletics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3875. The workout went like this.

Squats:
2 sets 5 x 360lbs
1 set 5 x 315lbs, HBBS style. See other thread for details

Bench Press (purely to humor my bodybuilding friend and also because the cieling was too low for overhead press)
3 sets 5 x 235lbs bench

Deadlifts
1 rep without straps at 335lbs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPGtmdDktzE
Then I decided to use straps and here are my other 4 reps with straps
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uYeYKXhokA

Robert Callahan 02-15-2009 12:46 PM

I am not a Oly lifting coach and thus don't know much about the usefulness of "clean Deadlifts" but I will say that if you are at maximal loads you will not be able to set your hips that low and get the weight moving. Just like what happens in the video your hips will raise to where they should be before maximal loads will move. I would think that just setting yourself in the correct position would then be beneficial for maintaining form and developing tension on the bar, but like I said not an Oly coach.

As far as squatting more than you DL... typically this is associated with squatting above parallel, but I do not think this is the case with your squats. You have decent anthropometry and strength... I do not see a reason for you DL to be so weak... Maybe someone else will have some insight into reasons for this.

-Robert

Dave Van Skike 02-15-2009 12:50 PM

weaker DL could just be shortish arms. try ditching the shoes.

none of those reps looked hard, probably just tired or something.

glennpendlay 02-15-2009 04:23 PM

Brian,

I think this is a glass half empty/half full thing. Your squat is high compared to your DL... I have found that a high squat/deadlift ration is somewhat predictive to OL success... dont know of any studies on this or anything, just an observation of mine.

glenn

Brian Lawyer 02-15-2009 09:08 PM

So what about the hips rising? Do I need to cut weight and try to keep my hips lower in order for this to constitute a "Clean Deadlift" versus a deadlift?

Quote:

Originally Posted by glennpendlay (Post 50660)
Brian,

I think this is a glass half empty/half full thing. Your squat is high compared to your DL... I have found that a high squat/deadlift ration is somewhat predictive to OL success... dont know of any studies on this or anything, just an observation of mine.

glenn


Brian Lawyer 02-16-2009 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Van Skike (Post 50647)
...try ditching the shoes...

I thought about that but since I am trying to make this an O'Lifting assistance exercise I opted to lift with the shoes. They are Do-wins from Glenn by the way...

Aaron Gainer 02-16-2009 11:43 PM

Deadlift in barefoot for a bit. I find it more comfortable to pull off the floor. And if anything, just keep deadlifting once per week. Keep squatting, just use small jumps(even a pound or two is enough) and you will get where you want to be in no time!!!

Blair Lowe 02-17-2009 07:06 AM

Umm, Brian have you tried DL in mixed grip? This usually helps people get their DL significantly higher.

I'm gonna think that DL using this " clean " version which is more Oly will like the Oly HBBS limit what you can lift.

I can understand the difference ( and maybe see it if I think starts low or starts high ) but I do not know if I can differentiate my DL form into a clean DL and regular DL. My friend said I DL more like an Oly lifter when at the CF Games ( a fellow CF affiliate coach/owner/operator that has done more of the Oly certs and sems than me [none] ).

Dave Van Skike 02-17-2009 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Lawyer (Post 50730)
I thought about that but since I am trying to make this an O'Lifting assistance exercise I opted to lift with the shoes. They are Do-wins from Glenn by the way...

If it's an assistance excercise, who cares how heavy it is?

You can immediately drive it higher by using a mixed grip, straps, or hook grip, ditching your shoes, and pulling like a Dl'er not an olympic lifter, and heaven forefend...learning to use a belt. In about 5- 6 sessions you'll be pulling over four plates. But it's an assit movement...so why bother?

Just keep doing what you're doing, mix in back off sets of heavy RDL's and heavy, heavy rows. Your "clean" DL will shoot up gradually without shoe removal or learning a different technique if that's somehow important.

glennpendlay 02-17-2009 06:28 PM

Brian,

If you are truly doing this as an OL assistance move, and your clean is in the 240lb range, id suggest you move the weight down to the 280 range. You can build from there, but id start with that for 2-3 workouts, and focus on pulling it like a clean.

glenn


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